Honda cars less dependable than Toyotas?

so you think it's ok for the american taxpayer to be exporting their own jobs to china?

and ). that ed, is a classic bullshit cite from you. [you probably wrote it.]

none of the so-called "statistics" are verifiable. and the concept of a

80% domestically manufactured vehicle being rated down to 40% because of some unexplained bullshit "weighting" is completely ridiculous.

for us-destined vehicles ed, they generally avoid it. japanese car manufacturers have had nothing but bad experiences with chinese componentry, part because of poor quality, part because of ip theft, so they minimize their exposure as much as possible. the stuff they do make there is destined to be sold there, and it's the crap that's way down the innovation list.

but you knew all this - you're just trying to twist the facts. and trying to ignore the american jobs japanese car companies create when they manufacture here.

red herring. but you knew that.

that's it ed - wriggle and squirm.

wriggle and squirm ed. i'm right on target and you know it.

part 1 - the passive-aggressive set-up!

part 2 - the passive-aggressive switch!

your bulls eat astroturf???

this is the retardation of your anti-toyota astroturf campaign ed. you and your fellow shills. you /think/ you're "great patriots" because you're "supporting a great american corporation", but reality is, you're backing completely the wrong horse. gm has done nothing but suck on the taxpayers teat for the last 20+ years. now they're doing it AND sending their jobs to a military aggressor and competitor. that is UTTERLY RIDICULOUS. and WRONG.

the fact that you either can't or won't acknowledge this means you and your kind are simply aiding the destruction of american domestic manufacturing. the very opposite of patriotic in fact.

listen retard, japanese, german and korean manufacturers are allies. china is not. not only that, china devotes massive resources to wholesale american ip theft, vast sums to shift american political policy in its favor [human rights abuses that we never do a damned thing about? environmental pollution that is poisoning the oceans and our pacific states? execution of dissidents that we never even acknowledge, let alone protest?] and here you are, taking the gm dollar to astroturf against toyota, and aid gm's chinese job creation and ip "export". ed, you seriously need to get a clue.

er, you're getting that from an online "translator"/dictionary ed. you are not conjugating correctly. but getting things right is not something you do, so i guess i shouldn't be surprised.

The oil filter is more difficult to change on the 4 cylinder models vs. the

6s because its located between the engine and firewall, directly above the exhaust and only accessible from underneath. On the 90's models its in the middle of the engine, on the newer ones (I am comparing with my '06 CRV) its still behind and above the exhaust, but closer to the right wheel & you can at least see it if you take the wheel off. It is positioned on the CR-V such that there is virtually no way to avoid spilling oil all over the back of the engine, drive shaft & exhaust when you take it off.

All my Nissans & Infinities ('91 240sx to '09 G37) are trivially easy compared to the Hondas.

you have to jack up the vehicle [or drive it onto ramps] to change the oil anyway because you need to access the drain plug. so, while it's up, it's trivial to reach the filter - it's right by the drain plug in fact.

i can't see the problem. if you can't reach the filter, you shouldn't be working on the car in the first place. that's not a slight on people that can't, but to do auto maintenance safely, i think a small barrier to access weeds out those more likely to make mistakes - and that is a good thing.

I don't think anyone cares!

Nobody said you don't have to jack up the vehicle (though on the Nissans v6s, you don't - you take off the right side splash guard and cut the wheels to the right & the drain plug and filter are right there). I'm not sure which car you're talking about, certainly not the Hondas I am. On the '96 Odyssey, the oil filter is way up on the center of the back of the engine & above the exhaust. About 2 feet from the drain plug. On the CRV, the filter is above the exhaust and the drive shafts, at least a foot and a half form the drain plug.

yes, precisely the hondas you're talking about.

i.e. both are accessible from exactly the same position you have to assume to undo the drain plug to the oil out.

The 1994 Camry that I service is the easiest vehicle I have ever dealt with while changing the oil.

No jacking the car up, I just reach forward underneath the front end with a wrench and spin the drain plug off.

The filter is on the front of the engine, on top, with space all around it. I have never even used a filter wrench on it, and when the filter comes off there is no oil drip from the filter hole to worry about.

True, but as I age, spending time underneath the car is something that I am liking less and less.

If I can take off the oil plug, get back out from underneath, and then deal with the filter on my feet, that is a good thing.

That is the way it works on my Miata, like the Accord it is low enough to require jacking it up or putting it on ramps every time.

Out of the cars I now service, a Miata, Camry and Accord, all 4 cylinder models, the Accord is the hardest one to change the oil on, but I agree it is not that big a deal and that I can do it as for as long as I can still get underneath a car, hopefully for another decade or three. :-)

I really want a pit, or a lift. I can always dream...........I need a garage first.

Pat

I should have mentioned that this Camry is a 4 cylinder model. I think it would be impossible to make the oil filter any easier to get to on any car, it is as easy to access as the oil dip stick.

I also had a 1982 Ford Econoline Van that was even easier to access the drain plug on, but the filter was not nearly as convenient to remove and replace.

Does anyone know if a later model Camry, like a 2009 model with a 4 cylinder, still has the filter so easy to get to?

for the honda, here's a trick:

warm the motor up in the usual way, then come home, drive the car up onto some ramps, then go inside and have breakfast. after an hour, go back out and spin the oil filter off. you'll find there's no spill because the filter has drained. but the motor's still warm enough for the pan to drain properly. [not that this is really important with more modern oils, especially not synthetics.]

in my experience, spill is the single most objectionable thing about changing oil on a honda. but it's so avoidable if you act as above.

Proof that it can be done. Now, how to get through to the bozos that design these things that they should all be like that?

Thanks for the info.

There are quite a few things that I like better about the mid-1990's Accords than the same period of Camry, but the oil changes definitely goes to the Camry.

The setup on the Camry places the filter right next to the exhaust manifold. Not sure if that matters, it doesn't appear to be a big factor anyway.

Also, the Camry filter sits pointed up at a slight forward angle. Most oil filters I have seen are mounted horizontally on the engine.

It makes me wonder if mounting it on the side of the engine is just for design convenience or if there is an operating advantage to it.

I will try that, thanks. Usually when changing the oil, I drop it in the evening and refill it in the morning.

I'm not worried about getting out a few more drops, though, it is usually just the way my scatter-brained schedule works out.

While the oil is draining I will almost always get distracted and then get involved in something else. Yeah, it's a problem.

yes, there's advantage - on most engines, the main oil gallery line is routed there.

Not that my lazy a__ will do this but how is the '03 Accord 4 cyl auto to change the oil? I used to do it on a chevy I had without ramps and it wasn't too bad tho of course I had to squirm a little underneath to reach the oil filter. As another poster said, I'm gettting older and lazier to change oil nowadays. Just not as fun as it once was. Actually my biggest gripe back when, wasn't the labor but where to get rid of the oil. That was and likely still is the biggest pain for me.

All these cars are pretty low to the ground now, its pretty difficult to do it without ramps. On the bright side, at least here in Texas, all the auto parts stores are required to accept used oil for (free) disposal.

What do you store it in to bring to them? Or is your container reuseable (they empty it and return to you) ?

I use a 5 gallon plastic jerry can. Its good for three or maybe four changes before it gets too heavy or too full.

They have a barrel, usually in the back of the store (O'Reilly & Autozone), or if they have maintenance bays, it'll be in one of the bays (Pep boys). You lug it in and pour it into the barrel yourself.