Honda FCX Clarity 5.97 MPG!

" Most of the hydrogen produced today is consumed on site, such as at an oil refinery, and is not sold on the market. From large-scale production, hydrogen costs $0.32/lb if it is consumed on site. When hydrogen is sold on the market, the cost of liquefying the hydrogen and transporting it to the user must be added to the production cost. This can increase the selling price to $1.00 - 1.40/lb for delivered liquid hydrogen. Some users who require relatively small amounts of very pure hydrogen (such as the electronics industry) may use electrolyzers to produce high-purity hydrogen at their facilities. The cost of this hydrogen, which depends on the cost of the electricity used to split the water, is typically $1.00 - $2.00/lb."

Interesting post, thanks.

So, what is your source of this information? per Honda, it gets closer to the equivalent of 60 MPG with a range of 270 miles, are you sure your decimal point is not in the wrong place?

I don't see where either say the vehicle gets 60 MPG. Rather, one graph says it has 60% efficiency, which means 60% of the energy in the hydrogen is converted to motion compared to about 20% in a gasoline engine.

In the NY Times article

it does say that it gets the equivalent of 68 MPG, meaning that it goes 69 miles on amount of energy as there is in a gallon of gasoline.

I got the information from a Canadian magazine called 'Driven'. It's a glossy, overpriced, psuedo car magazine. The Mar. 2008 edition on page 69 states a 171 litre fuel tank with a 435 kilometre range. That works out to 5.97 MPG (U.S.).

171 L = 45.178 U.S. Gal

435 Km = 269.7 miles

Did the mag mess up?

What's a gallon of H2 cost?

Hydrogen is a gas, not a liquid, unless it is real cold. A volume to volume comparison is meaningless, because if you double the pressure of the hydrogen gas, you double the amount of hydrogen in gas the hydrogen tank.

I don't know how much hydrogen costs.

Jeff

Well, a liquid gallon of hydrogen mixed with oxygen is about two cents, but that's about 90% oxygen by weight, so say you need ten gallons of the mixture, for about 20 cents. The separation is the trick.

J.

So is the pressurization and containment. Most people aren't interested in powering thei vehicle with a hefty bag of hydrogen, not capable of propeling their vehicle a whole 50'.

snipped-for-privacy@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (M.A. Stewart) wrote in news:fsronf$844$ snipped-for-privacy@theodyn.ncf.ca:

See, this is why that Mars lander crashed...got to get your units right. Hydrogen is a gas. Your can't have a gallon of, um, gas.

Is 171 liters liquid or compressed gas...was it 171 liters of gas at sea level?

The Chemistry Guy

Well you can. Take a gallon bottle of milk. Drink the milk. You are left with a gallon of air in the bottle.

IIRC, it was 2500 PSI, which is about 130 times atmospheric pressure.

The chemistry guy who knows that gases take up space and can be measured in gallons or litres (although that is useful unless you know the temperature and pressure - remember the ideal gas laws?).

Jeff

i don't think they ever mentioned about liquid H2 (LH2) to be used in the Clarity. In fact, storing and transfering LH2 is very dangeous.

I beleive that the car uses compressed gaseous H2 instead. But how much pressure is needed to store enough H2 for a 270 miles trip?

So i did some calculations based on these premises:

1) the volume ratio, liquid H2 at boiling point to gaseous H2 at normal temperature, is 1/848 2) the volumetric energy density of LH2 is one quarter of that of gasoline 3) a fuelcells-powered vehicle has three times the energy efficency of that of a gasoline-powered vehicle. Now, let's say a gallon of gasoline gives a Honda Accord 35 miles, then by energy content and engine's efficiency, a gallon of LH2 would yield (35/4)x3 = 27 miles for a Honda Clarity Then by volume ratio, i see that i would need 848 gallons of gaseous H2 to go 27 miles on the Clarity So to cover a distance of 270 miles, i would need a volume of 848 x (270/27) = 8,480 gallons of gaseous H2 at standard atmospheric pressure (1 atm) Assuming a constant temperature, then by Avogadro's law, to compress that volume to a fixed 45.2 gal container, a pressure of 8,480/45.2 = 187.6 atm = 2,748 psi is needed.

That looks like doable

Jeff wrote in news:Xy3Qj.6011$WU.1276@trndny08:

How many moles is that?

As you said a 'gallon of ' is meaningless without context.