Psychic Wednesday???

Some people are slow.

Some people eventually catch on.

Some people won't admit it though.

Some people will, that is when forced to.

Accidently tuned in to Montel and yep, Wednesday is psychic awright.

Now... What can one do about a crank pulley bolt that's snapped off?

No, I didn't do it!

Yes, I inherited the engine (which appears to be good otherwise on strip down).

TIA

JT

(Dreading a trip to the machine shop...)

Reply to
Grumpy AuContraire
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Grumpy AuContraire wrote in news:B9bTh.35458 $ snipped-for-privacy@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:

Shouldn't be a problem. Try drifting the remnant counter-clockwise with a sharp drift and a hammer.

With the bolt head gone, all the torque is off the threads anyway,

Reply to
Tegger

"Tegger" wrote

Isn't this counter to the theory (among some of us) that it's rust and debris etc. that result in the ridiculous torque often required to break the pulley bolt free?

That is, I thought you for one strongly felt the pulley bolt was not actually in tension to the tune of some 500 ft-lbs. of torque (on some Hondas)?

I am not as optimistic that this will come out easily without a lot of drilling.

Reply to
Elle

-----------------------

At least that's true if Mr LockTite wasn't hanging around.

'Curly'

Reply to
motsco_

Well, yes and no.

From the factory, I would assume that the bolt is tightened to spec which (to me) shouldn't be much more than 150 psi. I only tighten the (much larger) bolt on my Studebakers to 75 psi and have never lost one. Trash and debris would only be a factor if the bolt was removed and re-installed carelessly after the car was delivered.

Not me - See above.

If it's gonna come out, it'll be this evening. If it doesn't, I'll let the machine shop tackle it.

JT

Reply to
Grumpy AuContraire

"Grumpy AuContraire" wrote E

What's your theory on why Honda automobile pulley bolts are notoriously tight when it comes time to change the timing belt?

What year and make is this Honda, anyway?

Be careful, darling older, smarter honda-luvin' brother.

Reply to
Elle

"Elle" wrote in news:DscTh.136570$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net:

at least SOME of the torque will no longer be needed,with compression gone form the assembly. (I'm not optimistic,either;it seems nothing is ever "easy" when working on older cars.)

Reply to
Jim Yanik

"Jim Yanik" wrote

I'd have to think about it more. If it is debris, rust, heat cycling, etc. that causes adhesion over time between the male and female threads, it's a pseudo-torque that's been applied to the bolt. It's like a bolt was tightened to spec //and then// locktite somehow dripped on its threads. If the head shears off, is the torque required to deal with the locktite really going to be less? Not sure.

Reply to
Elle

The engine is the original that was in the '83 Civic FE. If you recall, I replaced it with a running motah out of an '81 DX but used all the '83 accessories and attachments.

If it's gonna come out, it will do so easy. Otherwise, the whole schmeer will go to the machine shop next week.

JT

Reply to
Grumpy AuContraire

It always seems to be that last bolt or fasterner...

JT

Reply to
Grumpy AuContraire

Grumpy AuContraire wrote in news:PrdTh.284544$ snipped-for-privacy@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:

Ooh. That could complicate things.

However...an air chisel will still drive it around very nicely even if corroded. Any garage with air tools should be able to do this for you. Unless it's really caked up, the air chisel should spin it off in seconds.

Check the crank bearings. Excessive wear will allow the pistons to travel too far upwards.

IF the pistons are contacting the valves, the valves will almost certainly be bent.

Reply to
Tegger

"Elle" wrote in news:8AdTh.20514$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net:

There's no "theory" involved.

The cause is simple embedment.

Not only have I been told this by engineers whose specialty is fasteners, but HONDA SAYS SO, TOO:

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Reply to
Tegger

"Tegger" wrote

We already went over this, and the guy was not absolutely sure.

This only says two to three times the installation torque may be required to remove the bolt, not why.

I am not rejecting the theory. I am saying I don't know for sure the cause.

Reply to
Elle

It twisted off deep in the recess and it was a "no go" with the centerpunch technique. I'll drop the shaft off to the machine shop next week.

I don't think so in this case as the engine had only 110K and there is no detectable ridge at the top of the cylinders. In fact, even sanding down the rust with 80 grit doesn't seem to hurt the cylinder walls. That puppy might get by with a honing and new rings/rod bearings.

I have the head which was supposedly rebuilt. Maybe I should send you some pix of the piston tops. I've never run into the valve/piston fracas when a timing belt snaps.

JT

Reply to
Grumpy AuContraire

"Elle" wrote in news:zDfTh.21776 $ snipped-for-privacy@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:

It says the reason is the bolt sticks to the crankshaft threads. That's "embedment".

It's not a "theory", but established fact, and a well-known phenomenon.

Reply to
Tegger

Grumpy AuContraire wrote in news:i0gTh.36169$ snipped-for-privacy@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:

Broke off too deep to be able to get a good run at it, I guess?

I'd like to see the recesses you mention.

I haven't, personally, either. I have personally known of two Honda engines that suffered no damage when the belt broke (Civic and CR-V).

Reply to
Tegger

It's a little spooky for obvious reasons, but when I had trouble with an alternator support bolt breaking off recessed in my really old Volvo (don't ask) I had success epoxying a nut to the end of the bolt. I prepped the location by spraying with brake cleaner. I put a dab of quick set epoxy putty in the center of the nut and left it extending out a bit, then pressed it into place and held it there a few minutes. I did let it set overnight before putting a wrench on it, though. Easy does it!

Short of that you can try duct tape on the back of a socket to fit in the hole, but I never got enough traction with that. Never tried a left-hand drill.

Mike

Reply to
Michael Pardee

Not so much that but it's not budging. I'm simply distorting what's left even more.

In my earlier days, I would have found out exactly what the dimensions of the shank minus thread were, got a drill bit slightly smaller and attempted to drill it out and retap (clean the threads) myself. But I'm far too lazy to do that now.

I suspect that the crank itself is fine and within tolerance for a new set of standard bearings. I'll send a pix of the piston tops later today.

JT

(Now if this was the Studebaker group, I'd just post 'em right here..)

Reply to
Grumpy AuContraire

That's what I'd call livin' close to the edge!

If you have anything that breaks off and needs a weld-like repair with real strength properties, try Devcon titanium putty.

When I freshend the engine in my Studebaker P/U ten years ago, the pan was like Swiss cheese. I spent an evening cleaning it out, coated the entire inside with a skim coat of Devcon and it still is holding up ten years later.

I don't know what you mean by a "left hand" drill. If one drills a bolt out, a conventional drill is used. I got my experience years ago in aircraft manufacturing having had to drill out lots of rivets/fasteners. So much so, I don't like doing anymore!

JT

Reply to
Grumpy AuContraire

Tool stores sometimes carry drills (the part that contacts the work, as opposed to the motor piece) that turn CCW in use instead of CW. Example at

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They are often used to drill pilot holes for easy-outs, but sometimes just the drag and occasional grab will unscrew bolts... say those who have used them. Mike

Reply to
Michael Pardee

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