This whole thing is starting to resemble either a really bad joke, or a
really bad sitcom, or
maybe there is a reason that I've avoided jap cars since I owned a '71
Toyota Corona !!!!!
A 20 mpg volvo might not be as bad as I thought....... 8*////
Because I've purchased the brush/regulator combo for the volvos over the
years, I had
expectations that when I ordered the 'brush pak' for the honda, that I'd get
with two brushes in it that I'd install into the alternator. I went to the
dealer to pick it up
after work, and was given ONE brush with attached spring. For $22. I was
the point of being speechless. When I recover, I'll have a conversation
with the parts
droid to see if they ordered the right thing, or what....... all I can
think is WTF?!?!?!?!?!
Unfortunately, my luck or lack of it continues. I checked into the ELD
at the dealer, and
joy of joys, I am the fortunate owner of one of those that requires an
entire fuse box for a list
price of $180. The droids best price to me is $140. I can buy a complete
alternator for $130. Geeezzz, even the best scotch I've purchased is only
Strike one at the wrecking yard. The first yard had absolutely NO
civics. I did find out that
I can get the part from a 96 to a 2000 civic, EX/DX/LX/GX. So I might hit
another yard later
this week. My son will check one close to his home tomorrow for me.
All this time, I've had the voltmeter plugged into the cig lighter.
(Autozone, $11.99 and it has
2 cig lighter sockets to plug accessories into.) This thing has the LCD
readout, and 3 LEDs, a
red, yellow, and green, that indicate the health level of the voltage system
based on voltage being
read. When getting a read of 11.5 to 12.2, I've had either a red LED or no
surprise, almost home tonight, and I get all 3 LEDs lighting up, look at the
display, and I have
13.4 or some such !!!!!!!!!!! Again, WTF !?!?!?!?!? And I think the
headlights were flickering,
couldn't tell because it wasn't dark enough yet.
I'm going to go out and waste another evening and pull the thing apart
again, and see if maybe
the contacts in the ELD connector have lost contact and maybe this thing is
intermittant. In the
process of changing the water pump and thermostat a while back, the contacts
for the sensor that
turns on the electric fan lost contact causing the fan to stop working and
the car to overheat a
couple of times. The contacts are very flimsy, and have a small amount of
corrosion on them,
so I had to 'tweak' them to make them work again. Perhaps this is happening
with the ELD......
Thanks for listening, this is very quickly getting old.........
No joy..... the ELD connector connection seems solid.....
Also, I found this article which goes into great detail about the dual
Folks, I'd like to ask your opinion, particularly yours Tegger.....
Intermittently, the charging system has worked as it is supposed to, in that
voltage rises to 13.5 or so. But, for the most part, it stays between 11.5
depending on load.
So, only a couple of things that could be wrong. ELD, alternator, wiring,
Last night I pulled the intake manifold support per the TSB found on Teggers
No joy. No bare wires, etc. Everything looks fine.
I ran across an ELD bypass technique put together by an EE trying to get
for his sound system. In short he puts an 820 ohm resistor across the ELD
tricks the ECU into thinking that there is a load demand and the alternator
I just put that resistance into my car, eliminating the ELD so that I could
determine if the problem
is the ELD or alternator, ignoring wiring and ECU possibilities. The ECU
saw the 2.1 volts, and
the alternator didn't turn on, i.e. my system voltage stayed at 12.0 volts.
So, my question to you is, do you think it makes sense to just change out
the alternator, thinking
that it just isn't reacting to ECU (computer) signals telling it to go to
high output mode? The car
has 165K miles, and an earlier reply suggested that over 150K the alternator
is suspect. Looking
at it when under the car yesterday, it was pretty corroded and nasty
thanks much, /glenn
you could check the alternator to see if the field circuit is getting more
current to create more output current. that's how the alternator regulates
it's current output,by changing the field current.Stronger field,more
output current(and voltage climbs). a scope would show you if a diode or
two is bad and the alternator output missing a phase ot two,that would
reduce it's output.
the alternator puts out pulsating DC that is smoothed by the battery.
missing a phase or two would show up on the scope.
alternately(pun intended),I believe places like Autozone or Advance Auto
can test alternators.Take it off and over to A-Z for test.
Your alternator has six diodes,three for the output coils,and three for the
field coils. any one bad diode would reduce output.
you might just have a bad ground somewhere.
take a jumper cable and ground the alternator frame to the car chassis.
Ha !!!!!!!! I win !!!!!!!!!!!
Alternator was bad.
Removed old one this morning and took it to Advance. They tested it, so I
a rebuilt. Just finished putting it in, and a quick startup shows 14.4vdc
on the cig
lighter meter !!!!!!!
We'll see how it works overall this week.
Funny stat. When I called about price/availability, they told me what they
had, and gave
me warranty information. If the car is built in Canada, the alternator
warranty is void.....
I'll bet it's because the canadian cars don't have the ELD and therefore,
runs constantly vs. via the ELD. Kind of dumb considering a normal car
doesn't have the
ELD and the alternator runs constantly.
Just for fun, I might eventually bypass the ELD and see what effect it has
on the gas mileage.
Also, I'll bet that my mileage goes up a bit now because the voltages will
be normal and not
low. I've seen situations where cars just don't run at full potential due
to voltage problems.....
thanks for all the help, /glenn
Apparently the ELD is not supposed to allow charging voltage below
12.4V, so the's something else at work here.
This guy /really/ seems to know his stuff. I'm impressed.
According to the (excellent) file you referenced in another post, the
ELD is never supposed to command a no-charge situation, just a
low-charge one (12.4V+). According to that same file, it is possible for
the charge light to fail to illuminate if an open exits in the Lamp line
in the ELD.
Appearance doesn't tell you much. I'm in the Rust Belt, and we get
frightenly awful levels of corrosion on everything -- but everything
funcions just fine.
But if you've factored the ELD out of the equation, and have no other
odd symptoms that would point to bad wiring, then it is looking
increasingly like the alternator is indeed at fault.
Is this an aftermarket reman alternator? Or is it from the factory?
How do the brushes look? Are they really short, with signs of arcing?
You should be able to pull the brush holder without removing the
only on a handy-dandy denso. others require the casing to be split and
special tools - hard to do /off/ the car, let alone on. and it's pretty
pointless messing abut with brushes unless you know the slip rings are
good and the regulator's good.
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