will honda's usa "marketing" dept learn this lesson?

jim beam wrote in news:rLidnRUq8duZcBbbnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@speakeasy.net:

I wish they would bring back the Prelude. Update it with LED turnsignals and taillights. Right now,Honda/Acura does not make anything I would buy. I'd buy an old 00-01 Prelude before I'd buy any new Honda/Acura.

I'm pretty sure they decided to aim the Accord coupe V6/manual transmission at that market.

After all, the 'lude was built on the Accord chassis.

I have a Supra (88) and a Scion tC (05)

The seating position in the Civic Si is the same as the Supra. The seating position in the Scion is the same as Outback Steakhouse.

Wish I had bought the Civic...

in which case, why not just sell a prelude? nobody buys an accord if they want something that is a little more fun. just like the crx was a no-brainer body transplant from the civic, so should be the prelude.

Ah, but you forget: the beancounters were in charge during that time.

It is cheaper to make the Accord than a model with different sheet metal and interior.

They may yet bring back the 'lude, now that the engineers seem to be back on the throne, but no doubt it's way down on their to-do list.

They've also managed to make the new Civics *ugly*. Toyota has done the same thing: given their cars unattractive, militaristic-looking noses like American vehicles tend to have. One really wonders if they realize who has been winning the sales wars the last 5 years, and who has been losing...

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I *hated* the look of the hatchback civics. I like the look of the new ones. The Si is a thing of beauty, IMO, and the rest of the line isn't that much different.

Now, the Japanese Si Hatchback is a nice looking car, maintaining the new style look, and making it a hatch. I would buy one of those in a second if they were available here...

On Jul 4, 8:58 pm, "mjc13"

I think the current Civic is gorgeous, even better looking than previous generation, which was also an improvement over the previous generation before that.

I do agree that Toyotas are pretty ugly.

IMO, most manufacturers are making ugly cars now. Look at Nissan's line-up... Yuck!!!

but the accord coupe is extensively re-worked. can't see any cost saving between that and a prelude.

remains to be seen. they haven't cured the civic wishbone thing yet. and they're not addressing the fact that they don't have anything to touch the evo/wrx yet either. [that's a /serious/ failing.] all it takes is a new prelude with 4wd and a blown s2000 motor to get that ball rolling. even if it were limited edition. redirecting resources to giant suv's??? wtf were they thinking?

btw, that wrx is one heckofa car. got passed by modded one a few weeks back - no idea what he had under the hood, but the noise was such that i looked in the mirror to see what was going on. wrx emerging from an on-ramp maybe 300 meters back. two shifts [and about as many seconds] later, he passed my sorry 85mph ass like i was standing still. seriously, that's one of the fastest vehicles i've ever seen. on or off the track. if honda had a vehicle, with motor, able to handle that kind of re-work, and wishbones, they could recapture the hearts and minds of the 2-ner/wrx crowd they blew apart back in 2001. and they should.

Sure--because they were doing the Accord coupe anyway.

When they chose to equip it with the V6 w/manual tranny, that was their nod to the 'lude crowd--which, by and large, had grown up and probably were very happy to have such a car.

They gave a nod to that market without having to spend a bunch of money. Doing a full-on 'lude would have entailed MUCH more money, and plainly Honda didn't see any good return on such an effort.

In the Civic line, I don't think there's anything to be "cured". It's just not a problem. Civics are selling well--and that's all Honda cares about.

nah. Honda doesn't have the money Toyota has, not by far, so they're happy to stay out of those markets. Given Honda's history, that doesn't surprise me one bit.

Well, the Pilot/MDX has sold well--no surprise, since that's the kind of car many people were buying.

"What were they thinking"? I can tell you: "let's build an SUV that competes well in the SUV market, which is huge." No surprise there.

The Ridgeline has its niche, too. It's a very, very strong vehicle. Not my cup of tea, but well done for those who like it.

Ah, they could--but they clearly see their destiny lying elsewhere.

but that's the illogical bit! just do it properly and call it a prelude!

v6 is not "true honda" and hardly sells anywhere else in the world - it's pandering to the american market.

really, not very much.

vs how many accord coupe's sold? not many.

disagree! it's handling that put honda on the map. they threw that out the window when they went macpherson on the civic. may as well buy a camry. or a subaru if you want a car with guts.

but the point is, the civic was one of the most popular cars in the world in terms of gross sales. and incredibly popular on the track. and with a relatively low power motor! don't see many modern civics on the track because they don't handle. you see wrx's because what they lack in handling, they make up in power.

but globally, that's a zero market - it just diverts resources. and domestically, unit sales aren't high either. cost of development vs. sales?

yes, handing their customer base over to toyota, subaru, mitsubishi and nissan. they should stick to the one thing that used to differentiate them from the pack, and do it was well as possible - sports car handling on a cheap compact/family car. it's not like it costs that much more to produce, and when balanced against brand loyalty and repeat sales, is a no-brainer.

Well, I agree with the others here, that today's Accord coupes deliver whatever it is you think you'd get out of a Prelude.

EXCEPT the distinction.

I agree with you that, in terms of sizzle, Honda/Acura is determinately non-sizzling. The Si's are so-so, the S2000 is an engineering marvel but addresses only a tiny market, no successor to the NSX, no V8's for the top of the line. They seem to be underselling the Fix for reasons that escape me, but the thing is 500 pounds too heavy in any case.

My Accord is perhaps the world's best automotive bargain and an engineering marvel itself (as are also the Camry), but ... not as exciting as one would like.

Just look at that new Audi R8 coupe ... bring back a Prelude in that class, why doncha?

J.

That may have been so years back, but you can't dispute: Civics are selling well, AND that's all Honda cares about.

Honda is a marketing company. If handling doesn't sell, then they won't care.

but they're not selling as well as they used to - honda have lost significant market share to toyota. and the rsx or whatever the successor to the integra is, [same civic platform] isn't selling at all!

if that's what they think, that's the problem!

but handling /does/ sell!

if they think they're just going to sell cheap generic crap, they're in trouble because toyota can do that better. and frankly, hyundai [etc] is breathing hard up their tail pipe as well. they'll also have their margins cut to the bone and have no brand loyalty. if they make something that people like because it's better, price is less elastic /and/ they retain repeat customers. like subaru.

honda used to play the game /way/ better. there's no reason they can't do it again.

JXStern wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Put a 1998-2001 last generation Prelude next to an Accord coupe,and the Accord will be bigger and taller.(and heavier) IMO,significantly different. The older 1990 Prelude was much closer to the Accord. Then there was that wierd Prelude inbetween them.....

Even the defunct RSX was sportier than any Accord.

jim beam wrote in news:9POdnbeoAoYK0hDbnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@speakeasy.net:

the RSX is defunct;they stopped making them,ISTR.

Look at how well the Integra sold. 3dr and 4 dr versions! Then Honda redesigned it to the RSX,which was uglier,and it didn't sell. the old 1996-2000 Civic hatchback sold very well,and newer versions were uglier and didn't sell as well. Tuners would rather buy an older Honda and rework it than buy a new Civic.

Sochiro Honda is no longer around,that's the problem.

I like the taller small cars, if I want an MGB roadster there's already the S2000. I look at the current Porches as a little retro in staying so low. The new motors are so much better, a little extra wind resistance, even a *little* extra weight, are OK.

How 'bout this, a new Prelude would make a great new Honda vehicle to experiment with low weight technologies, like the Lotusii.

If Honda continued to make the Prelude today, put today's 'lude against a 98-01 'lude, and today's car would be bigger and heavier.

Fact.

So?

Ever driven a current model V6 Accord coupe w/manual trans?