How much better is the '06 Sonata?

True, but the difference is now much smaller with the lockup TCs. Although you still have some pumping loss in the tranny, it is minor when you aren't shifting.

Yes, I likely would have bought a V-6 if I could have obtained the 5 speed with it. Quite an oversight on Hyundai's part IMO.

Matt

Matt, in a continuing post on the Sonata automatic transmission vs. the manual, said: "True, but the difference is now much smaller with the lockup TCs. Although you still have some pumping loss in the tranny, it is minor when you aren't shifting."......

Quite true. In fact, people with manuals, who do a lot of open road, country or interstate driving will probably get as good or better gas mileage with an automatic. The close numbers of EPA ratings of the Sonata 4 (maunal vs. automatic) bear this out.

In real life, it may be even more stark. Consumer Reports just released its February guide, where it tested the new Honda Civic - same trim line, same engine, one with a manual, one with an automatic.

Overall, the manual whipped the automatic, 31 mpg to 28. And city mileage had a distinct advantage to the manual. But in highway driving, the manual got 40 mpg, the automatic got 43.

Indeed, with me personally doing much more open road driving than city driving, that is more than enough to convince me, if I ever bought one, to get the Civic automatic, even if I like driving a manual.

By the way, Consumer Reports, no matter what you may think of them, will be releasing a full report in the March issue (due on newsstands in about a month) on the new 2006 Sonata, and from what I hear, they will release a full test on both the GLS 4 and the LX V6, though my hunch is both will have an automatic. CU will also release tests of the new Ford Fusion (probably also the 4 & 6), and the Dodge Charger. It will be an issue to buy, if only for one perspective.

Although some of CU's slants on cars are occasionally goofy, I do commend them for running cars for over 15,000 miles in every possible test to get the best sense of what they are really like.

Green Valley Giant

Yes, it seems to vary a fair bit by type of car and type of driving.

I'd still buy a manual as I simply enjoy shifting and being in more control of the car. Cars are so automatic and boring these days that I need something to do to keep me awake!

I'm a subscriber so it'll be fun to see what they say.

Yes, I agree with about 50% of their conclusions and question some of their test methodologies. I also don't buy their "we aren't biased BS" as that simply isn't true. They may not be biased by advertising, but they are biased by fund raising through other means. The whole issue with the Suzuki roll-over was clearly, IMO, largely contrived by CU to make headlines and help raise money. I've read a number of things over the years about that, including court transcripts and they weren't clean at all on that deal. Not dirty enough for Suzuki to win a suit, but not clean at all either. So, I read their tests, but apply a large dash of salt to their conclusions.

Matt

Sure there are! There are plenty roads around Atlantis, too.

But it's just that little preposition "in" that made me comment!

"James Atkinson" wrote in news:fdiyf.3767$Aq5.334 @fe08.lga:

LOL, yeah, I know :-P

Speaking of Consumer Reports, and their testing, I would like to wonder what's going on with the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS)? The 2006 Sonata was available in the Spring of 2005, whereas the new

2006 Honda Civic wasn't available until Fall 2005. IIHS has already tested the new Civic (passed with flying colors) and they've listed it as the Best Buy and Safest Small car. However, nothing as yet on the Sonata. One really wonders if the IIHS is biased a bit as well, especially rushing the new Civic through their testing and publishing reports so quickly.

I'd say the insurance industry is biased. My insurance went up $200 for the new Sonata from a 2003 Malibu. Why???? They say they don't know. It's not just 'cause it's a new car, either. I swapped a 2000 Caravan for a brand new

2004 T&C at the end of 2003 - same basic vehicle. Insurance changed a few $ for that one. >

"Matt Whiting" ha scritto nel messaggio news:mTAxf.5117$ snipped-for-privacy@news1.epix.net...

Not really so in all parts of Italy, but more and more similar to description going to southern cities.

I know what you mean on the insurance rates. The insurance cost for our new 2006 Elantra GLS is much higher than expected. But, I think I know why, and I hope I don't offend anyone here!

It appears from speaking to my insurance agent, Hyundai's rates are higher because of its historical insurability record. As you know, rate structures are not based only on "your" driving record, rather the whole "universe" of drivers of that make and model. Similar to one's homeowner's insurance because of hurricane insurance payouts, etc. . . .

Hyundai, for better or worse, historically sold its vehicles to many of those at the lower end of the socio-economic scale, some of whom did not have enviable driving records or accident histories. Again, my intent is not to offend anyone, but just stating what's on the record. Because of this, most of us who are buying Hyundai products today tend to pay higher rates than a Honda or Toyota. Hopefully, as Hyundai continues to improve its products and market penetration, this will change as the brand is perceived differently.

I've never had a chargeable accident, nor a moving violation, and am in the lowest rate category possible, but my rates on the new Elantra are higher than that of a 2006 Accord or Camry. I know, because I checked prior to buying the Elantra. It's certainly very frustrating to be sure.

Regarding the IIHS, I never perceived that organization as biased, but because of the "fast-tracking" of the new Civic testing and results, I truly wonder. Unless the new Sonata failed miserably (which I seriously doubt), and the IIHS is holding the results until a retest, there is no excuse for publishing the crash test results of the new Civic prior to the new Sonata.

I have no doubt that the IIHS is biased. EVERY organization and government agency is biased one way or another. The hard part is figuring out their bias so you can account for it.

On the other hand, given that the Civic is a much better seller than the Sonata (at least the last I knew), it makes sense to test the high-volume cars before the low-volume ones. That would be a bias that I could understand at least.

Matt

Yes, the Sonata cost me a lot more for insurance than I expected. $1100 just for comprehensive coverage alone! Are Hyundai parts unusually expensive?

Minivans are relatively cheap to insure compared to other vehicles in my experience. Only my Chevy pickup was less expensive than my minivans.

Matt

Does anyone know how IIHS gets their vehicles? Do they buy them off the street or are they provided by the manufacturers?

Matt

Matt Whiting wrote in news:mZzyf.5167$ snipped-for-privacy@news1.epix.net:

I'm a little surprised by you guys and your insurance. I live in NJ, which last I heard was the most expensive state for insurance, and my insurance went DOWN with the Sonata, as compared to my 2002 Elantra (we still have a 2003 Elantra). I believe it went down about $100 (according to the wife, I don't have the dec page in front of me).

In fact, we pay $1250/year for 3 vehicles. The two I mentioned above both have full comp and collision, while my P/U truck has just liability. We live in a city (much higher than the rural area we moved from 6 years ago), but we have no kids on the policy (2 kids age 4 and

1).

On top of that, we've made 4 collision claims in the last 3 years. My wife has the only "at-fault" accident, but I have the other 3 "fender benders".

Maybe NJ rates aren't as bad as they make them out to be? Although I'm fairly sure I would have anyone outside of NYC beat on property taxes (yeah!). $6400 this year for a 1.5 story Cape Cod on 1/4 acre.

I'm 59 years old, never filed a claim with my insurance company, never had a chargeable accident or a moving violation (as per my earlier post), and am in the lowest-rate preferred group within my insurance company. The rate for full coverage with just my wife and I on the policy with $500 deductible on collision and $100 deductible on comp is $610 per year for the new 2006 Elantra GLS 4-door sedan. I live in Champaign-Urbana, IL - the location of the University of Illinois (pop. around 120K, excluding the 35K students) about 130 miles south of Chicago.

Not high rates certainly (Matt - $1,100 just for comp - wow! - where do you live!!), as compared to many parts of the country, but much higher than what I was paying before on a more expensive vehicle.

I live in PA. Part of the problem is having a 16 year-old driver now, however, comp on my other vehicles is much lower than the Sonata. I used to pay $1000/year for three vehicles, now I pay $2600 or something like that with a 16 year-old daughter.

I've only had one accident in the last 30 years and it wasn't my fault. I was hit by a drunk driver this past 12/21. It totaled one of my minvans, but fortunately the other guy's insurance had to pay.

I was talking more about the relative rates on the Hyundai than the absolute amount as my daughter obviously skews that a fair bit. :-) The Hyundai was also more than a Toyota, Honda, Chevy or Dodge would have been by a $100 or so per year.

Matt

I've been there and done that on the kids. Actually, I'm still doing it to a certain extent. The biggest hit was with our son from age 16. His big insurance break came at 25.

With all of our vehicles, including our daughter who is 21 and a Senior at the University of Illinois, our total insurance bill is just a tad over $2,000 per year. However, she has her own car which we cover with insurance, and she's not a listed driver on the new Hyundai. The cheapest to insure by far is our Dodge Grand Caravan.

I fully agree, the relative rates on the Hyundai are higher than the norm.

Don wrote: "Speaking of Consumer Reports, and their testing, I would like to wonder what's going on with the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS)? The 2006 Sonata was available in the Spring of 2005, whereas the new 2006 Honda Civic wasn't available until Fall 2005. IIHS has already tested the new Civic (passed with flying colors) and they've listed it as the Best Buy and Safest Small car. However, nothing as yet on the Sonata. One really wonders if the IIHS is biased a bit as well, especially rushing the new Civic through their testing and publishing reports so quickly."......

I don't know if I would call it bias. What I do know is that automobile manufacturers themselves may pay the IIHS to put certain cars on a fast track if they want their safety results out there quickly. This is often done when a manufacturer's car comes up sub-standard on an IIHS test. The manufacturer will re-design it (maybe for the next model year), and as soon as the cars are publicly available they will submit one to the IIHS and pay the costs of the testing.

Without this "fast-track-paying," the IIHS still does a lot of its own testing, but on its own time-line. I am convinced that they do not test a car paid for by a manufacturer any differently than one they test on their own. Nor do they slant results for those that pay.

They probably only have a certain budget and so many vehicles that they can (and feel they need to) test in a certain time period.

The good news is that apparently these results are valued enough by manufacturers (for PR or whatever) that if a vehicle does come back poorly they will go back and make design changes to make it safer and pass these tough tests. That would have been unheard of just a couple of decades ago.

And the true beneficiary is the consumer with safer vehicles.

Don't fret - IIHS will be testing the '06 Sonata soon.

Green Valley Giant

Eric, I traded in a 2002 Sonata GLS V6 on a 2006 Sonata GLS V6. Naturally I appreciate the increase in power and interior space. Otherwise for me two main improvements stand out. The 2006 Sonata does not handle like a large car and corners extremely well. Pushing the car beyond physical limits triggers the electronic stability programming which is interesting to experience. The best way I can describe it is the feeling of an invisible hand nudging the car around the turn. The 2nd main improvement is safety. Like the 2002 Sonata, braking is excellent and even best in class. Styling preferences are individual, but I do miss the stand-out styling of the 2002. I find fuel economy to be very slightly less than my 2002, but given the increase in power it's hard to complain about that.

I knew the 2006 Sonata was an excellent deal, but watching a recent Lexus ES (starting at $32,000) commercial it really hit home. The commercial shows the ES navigating any icy landscape filled with ice sculptures while the dialog mentions that the importance of safety leads Lexus to make stability control available (as an option) on the ES. Even the base Sonata includes this feature standard.

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