How much better is the '06 Sonata?

No, just talking usenet reality.

No, it is a logical extension of your original argument.

Matt

Matt Whiting wrote in news:dXixf.5098$ snipped-for-privacy@news1.epix.net:

It's only easier to admit if it were actually true. If telling the truth just makes me look silly, then just call me Mr. Silly.

I'll stop feeding the troll now because I know that almost everyone that bothered to drive the V6 bought it.

Centella Cajon wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

I am pretty sure Matt has never had the opportunity to drive in conditions that we call "normal". So please go easy on the troll, for he knows not what we speak of :-)

I Even I can only imagine how much worse it is for you than me.

Matt Whiting wrote in news:FVixf.5097$ snipped-for-privacy@news1.epix.net:

See, I knew it was reading comprehension problem!! I wasn't comparing anything to your 1970 Fury, unless you are that much in a fog to think that

I drove both. I liked both. The decision point for me was three-fold:

1. I like stick shift and the Sonata doesn't offer a stick with the V-6
2. I was after fuel economy.
3. I wanted to keep the initial price as low as possible.

So, the 4 cylinder was an easy decision. And the ironic part is that it easily out accelerates my V-6 minivan and my V-6 pickup truck. :-)

Matt

Maybe, maybe not. What are your normal conditions? I've driven in Boston, LA, Atlanta, Paris, most of England and many large cities in the USA. I haven't driven in Italy and I hear that is one of the most challenging places to drive. Are you in Italy? :-)

Matt

Wowwee, you certianly do get around on this planet...........jeez! You should do a tv travel show. Just one question why would you think he was in italy?....Doc

Matt Whiting wrote in news:28Axf.5116$ snipped-for-privacy@news1.epix.net:

I've driven in all of those cities as well as Rome and Venice in Italy. That still doesn't answer the question of what your normal conditions are. Southern California was the worst I've seen by far, but where I live is second on the list without a doubt, although I'd have to say that Atlanta wasn't too far behind.

Matt Whiting wrote in news:s6Axf.5115$ snipped-for-privacy@news1.epix.net:

Fair enough. I'm not judging your decision. For me, having to sit in daily crawling traffic, a stick just doesn't make any sense. I did NOT drive the 4 with a stick (the dealer didn't have one even if I wanted to). Maybe that has good enough power, but you have to admit that the automatic was a bit on the feebler side as far as pulling out into traffic, no? The V6 was even an easier decision for me without the stick in the equation.

Just out of curiosity, do you know how much the minivan and pickup weigh versus the Sonata?

I didn't, I was being facetious. He was implying that I'd never driven in hectic urban conditions. I believe I've driven in conditions as bad as anything short of Italy. :-)

I have friends you spent time in Italy on a project while I was working on a similar project in England. We compared notes from time to time and it was clear that driving in Italy was quite an adventure. Routinely passing down the middle of a two-lane (narrow at that) road against opposing traffic was apparently quite routine. And the protocol for going through an intersection marked with a stop sign was to honk your horn a 100 yards away and if you heard no honks in return, you simply drove through the intersection at cruise speed.

Maybe they were pulling my leg, but I've heard similar stories from a number of people who have lived or driven in Italy.

Matt

My normal conditions are primarily rural two-lanes and four-lanes with lots of semi traffic. I drive route 15 to work and it is the only north-south route in central PA and is very heavily trafficed with large trucks being dominant. Probably deer are one of the biggest road hazards.

I don't drive in the city on a daily basis, but I travel a lot in my work so I drive fairly often in a number of cities around the US and the world.

Matt

And I wasn't judging your decision, I just was picking on your justification for it. :-)

I didn't drive a 4 cylinder automatic, but I found the V-6 automatic to be fairly peppy both at low speeds and at high. I found the 4 cylinder stick nearly as peppy up until about 80 MPH (don't tell the dealer about my test drives!). The V-6, once it shifts down, pulls better at higher speeds, but if you hold it in 5th, the advantage over the 4 cylinder stick seemed minor to me.

Yes, I likely wouldn't buy a stick in the city, then again, I just might as I really like stick shift and nearly despise automatics. I'm probably the only person in my county who has a snow-plow equipped pickup truck with a 5 speed. Everyone tells me you can't plow snow with a standard without burning up the clutch. Well, I've done it for 50,000 miles or so with no problem (the truck has 90K, but has only had the plow for the past 50K). I also tow a camper with a manual tranny.

I should say that I drove semis for 5 years so I really do know how to drive a stick. Driven properly, a stick will do just about anything an automatic will do, and does a lot of things better and for less money and maintenance cost and far fewer failures.

I'm not precisly sure, but my truck weighs about 5,600 lbs empty (I've had it on scales so I know this number is pretty close). I'm not sure about the minivan, but I'm guessing it weights 4,000 or so (it is an 03 Grand Caravan). The truck has the 4.3L Vortec V-6 and the van has the

I'd have to go out and get my manual to look up the Sonata weight, but I was thinking that the 4 cylinder/5 speed was just shy of 3,000 lbs and it seems that the V-6 automatic was a couple of hundred pounds heavier. The extra weight, and I believe higher final drive ratio, is the likely reason that the acceleration difference isn't as pronounced as the torque difference between the two engines might suggest.

If I get a minute, I'll Google and find the exact weights of the GC and Sonata.

Matt

Venice is one of the most challenging places to drive especially if you don't float too well.

I guess I don't understand. someone wrote "how much better is the '06' Sonata...

Then everyone get's their claws out.

If you guys wanna bitch to each other, please change the Subject and take it there.

I wanted to see what everyone thought about the '06' sonata and Learned NOTHING...

PS.. It's appears that it's not just this tread but many ones in many groups.

No, we were just having a little fun.

Who appointed you guardian?

I've posted extensively about my 06 Sonata in another thread as have others. If you've learned nothing, then you aren't paying attention or reading much.

That's usenet. Get used to it. It's been that way for decades, well at least the two that I've been using it.

Matt

"James Atkinson" wrote in news:K8Exf.343$r snipped-for-privacy@fe09.lga:

I drove an amphibious Volkswagen Beetle there wise guy :-)

I would have to guess that you've never actually been to Venice to say that, because there are plenty of roads around Venice "proper".

Matt Whiting wrote in news:P2Bxf.5122$ snipped-for-privacy@news1.epix.net:

The bottom line is the AT 4 could not get out of its own way. If anything, it was about the same as my Elantra. Considering the traffic, merging and general acceleration needed in my daily driving area, it wasn't an option for me. Again, it is a safety issue. If you don't consider that safety, come live here for a while and see for yourself. People will, for the most part, push you off the road if you're in their way.

I also ran both of my test drive vehicles hard and the 4AT couldn't hold a candle to the V6. I find it hard to believe that the 4MT would have much more pop, but it does have a higher final drive ratio, so that could make a difference. It is also probably 200-300 pounds lighter (guess) which would also help it out. Sounds like you should have also looked at the Elantra GT.

I also drove a MT for 20 years. I love it too (my Elantra was my first AT purchased more because of the wife). I still have an '88 chevy P/U with a MT. It's a light buty truck, and I don't plow with it, but we do plow with the 1990 Dodge Ram P/U with an MT at work. As you said, it works fine. We're at 100,000 miles at work with the first clutch and my own truck is at 175,000 miles with the clutch replaced only once.

I have never driven a semi, but I drive a 1968 Mack tanker truck with 14 gears at work. Ten years ago I would have agreed with you completely. I still agree that a manual will run for less money and maintenance cost, but honestly there is almost nothing a stick will do these days that an atuo can't.

Exact numbers aren't important really. Just run a general HP/weight ratio and you will see why the Sonata accelerates better. Yes tourque can be a factor too, but usually not unless you are comparing a diesel engine.

Eric

Sounds like you need a Hummer, not a Sonata. :-)

A stick can be push or coast started if the battery dies. A stick can be more safely towed. I can control which gear my transmission is in at all times. I realize the shiftronic can now do this as well, but it seemed a little gimicky to me. I am simply too used to the "H" pattern and couldn't remember which way to move the lever to shift up and down manually. A stick won't overheat like an automatic can. And manual still gets better fuel mileage in almost all vehicles, though I have seen a couple where the auto was the same or even claimed to be better. It is is better, then I believe that is due to a poorly designed manual or an improper final drive ratio.

Actually, torque is the only factor insofar as acceleration is concerned as torque is a measure of force and force is the factor in acceleration as Newton told us so many years ago. Remember, F=ma. Horsepower determines the top speed capability as it is a measure of work and the faster the car goes the more work it is doing.

Matt