All things must come to and end. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17467382 /
Also, often the Ford sales figures are compared to Chevrolet only, not
to GM, which includes both the Chevy and GMC brands.
Also, folks that buy Fords aren't known for having high IQs. :-)
I won't ask you to dismiss it, but I've already dismissed it. It didn't
impress me overall any more than my current 1994 Chevy. Have you
I'm hoping that Hyundai produces a pickup before I need to replace mine.
However, if it looks anything like the Kia concept pickup ... I won't
touch it with a 10' pole. That thing is butt ugly.
Hey! I resemble that remark :-) OK, I confess to dumbing down to an F-150
in 1999. I leased it too (what a dumb move that was). I also got rid of
it before the lease was up because of too many problems to list here. It
was a POS.
The biggest problem I had with that truck was that a welded seam on each
door (first the driver side, than about 6 months later the passenger side)
cracked/split on me. It took two months fighting with Ford to get them to
fix it the first time. And that was only after I had proof from two other
people that Ford had already paid to fix the same problem on their trucks.
It was a fiasco to say the least.
But at the time, the F-150 really drove better, and offered more for the
money, than the Chevy.
Can I qualify for an IQ boost now since I got rid of the thing?
Certainly! And if you buy a Chevy, you'll gain another 10 points!! :-)
I have nothing against Fords, but the only vehicle they make that I
really like is the Mustang. Everything else is pretty pedestrian.
I'm still hoping the Hyundai and Chrysler get together. I think that
could be a really nice combination! Take a Dodge Ram and give it
Hyundai assembly quality and that would be a killer truck. Same with a
the Chrysler minivans, although the Hyundai minivan is pretty good
already, I still like the Chrysler design better.
36:10) about "Re: Would you buy another Hyundai?":
MW> I won't ask you to dismiss it, but I've already dismissed it. It
MW> didn't impress me overall any more than my current
MW> 1994 Chevy. Have you driven one?
I am afraid not. I have no interest in pickup trucks at this time and when
I retire and get a 5th wheel I would be looking for a dualie. Most likely
not a GM unless their designers smarten up and continue the new direction
that they appear to be taking with the new Silverado. At this time I admire
=== Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 3.3
On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:30:32 -0500, a rock fell from the sky, hitting
Wayne Moses on the head, and inspiring the following:
I hate that statement - in that it is not only incorrect but such a crock.
Yes, the ford 150 sells more than the Chevy Silverado, but then GM
(stupidly) splits their truck sales figures into two trucks.
When you combine the Sierra with the Silverado (they are almost
identical) then you get sales figures consistently higher than the F150.
Even if you didn't you'd find that the Silverado and F150 tend to be
roughly equal in sales - particularly when compared to the Nissan or
One anecdotal data point is essentially meaningless in the overall
context of product quality. Defects happen. The difference is that
serious problems like yours are considered rare for Honda, but it would
be run-of-the-mill for GM. While you have every right to be angry at
Honda and refuse to buy their products in the future, don't kid yourself
that you'd get a better product by buying GM. The fact that Honda is
thriving and GM is still on the verge of going belly-up should tell you
Well - I wouldn't go that far Brian. GM certainly does have some
longstanding issues that have earned them some of the public mistrust that
they are currently subject to, and I'm happy they're reaping the rewards of
some of their heavy handed, customer last attitudes of recent times. That
said, the experience of the previous poster is in no way typical of GM owner
experiences. I've owned plenty of GM's and have lots of family and friends
who have owned plenty of imports of all sorts, Honda well included. GM
buyers have enjoyed a great deal of solid design and build, long lived,
excellent cars. That includes cars of the most recent vintage, despite some
of the problems that should have been fixed long ago. I certainly would not
characterize GM products as inferior to any other. GM corporate attitudes,
and the manner in which GM has responded to its customer base? Well, that's
a different story.
In the words of former GM exec Alfred Sloane "General Motors is not in
the business of making cars, it's in the business of making money." It's
pretty obvious that they still live by that philosophy. I would never
trust any company that demonstrates the level of contempt for their
customers that GM has for decades. No matter how many times they get
hammered in the marketplace, they just never learn. The best thing that
could happen to GM is for them to get bought out by Honda, Toyota or
<gasp> Hyundai. Clean out the upper management, tell the UAW to take a
hike, let the people who actually care about cars, quality and customers
run the place and you might actually end up with a decent company.
I'd buy another Hyundai possibly, but probably not another standard
shift. Their throttle/clutch combination in my Sonata is the pits.
I'd like to get a BMW, Audi or maybe VW as the Germans know how to make
a standard shift vehicle. If I buy another minivan, I'll consider a
Hyundai, but my next purchase will likely be a truck to replace my 94
Chevy and it likely will be another Chevy.
I'm going to test drive a Tundra today as Toyota says they will give me
a $50 Home Depot gift certificate if I do. That is enough incentive for
7 years????? What the hell do you have against that truck Matt, that you're
so damned anxious to get rid of it?
Matt - you require too much vision. You're driving a truck dambit...
Oh man - that would be a major issue for me. I plow *only* in 4 low.
Imagine a day of beep beep beep...
Well, after one more of the upstate NY winters than your truck has Matt,
mine is really showing the signs as of this year. The rust really came
alive over the past year. This summer my truck will see some major
reconstructive surgery. Cab off, some minor frame work and paint, new
doors, new front fenders, and some metal work on the cab corners and on the
box. Like you said - for the money it'll cost me to renew the body on this
truck, I can't even think about looking at a new(er) one.
What make/model is the truck you are fixing up?
When mine is no longer road worthy, and assuming it still is a reliable
runner, I plan to just drop the license and use it off-road to plow my
driveway and haul firewood. I'm still using my old 1986 Jeep Comanche
for that, but it is getting harder to keep running and the clutch or
transmission sychros are going as it is getting hard to get into 1st and
reverse. I suspect the clutch as when my father-in-law had it (I had it
nearly 10 years and then he bought it for 10 more and then gave it back
to me two years ago shortly before he died) he didn't know it had a
hydraulic clutch. When I got it back, the clutch felt funny so I looked
into the master cylinder. I couldn't even see fluid and it was full of
dried gunk. I filled it up, but it never came back to normal so I
suspect that the seals may have dried out or something. I was going to
try to rebuild it, but decided the truck isn't worth is as the body is
about shot as well as other parts of the truck (exhaust, etc.) and I
figure I'll be able to replace it with the Chevy in the next few years
and buy a diesel for my road truck.
Sounds close to mine. Mine is a 94 Silverado K1500 extended cab. Mine
has the 4.3L with 5 speed MT8 manual (at least I think that was the
designation for the transmission with the granny gear low). I let the
salesman talk me out of the 4.10 axles for 3.73s and that was a mistake.
A couple of years after I bought the truck, I replaced the ring and
pinions with 4.56s and what a difference that made. No loss in fuel
economy as it was lugging too much in OD (1600 RPM stock and about 2000
RPM after the swap at 55 MPH. And much better performance and in L/4L,
I can get out and walk faster than the truck moves at idle!
I noticed the first rust last fall behind the rear mudflaps. I suspect
the truck will pass inspection for at least 4 more years with no body
work and that will probably be enough for me to just drop the license
and use it for my off-road mule rather than try to fix it up and keep it
street legal. I'll be ready for a new diesel truck by then anyway!
Sorry Matt - I should also have noted that mine is a K1500 extended cab
also. Mine is an automatic though.
I noticed some rust starting - just starting, last year. That was around
the cab corners, and the front fenders. This year those spots are large
holes. The lower doors and the tail gate began rusting years ago - I forget
now how many years ago. I think it must have been 7 or 8 years ago. I
repaired those areas at the time, but not by adding any sheet metal. Just
sandblasted them and applied some POR-15, then worked up from there with
normal body work. That repair was ok, for what it was, in that I got 7 or 8
years out of it for low cost. Now - the lower skins have to be replaced on
the doors and the tail gate is a goner. But - the truck is 14 years old.
It sits more than it gets driven now, except for plow season. I swear -
that's the worst thing that can happen to a vehicle. Sitting just seems to
That explains it! Automatics rust a lot faster than standards! :-)
I had no rust last year on the front fenders, doors or tailgate, at
least nothing visible when I waxed the truck. And waxing tends to give
me a pretty good inspection. The main rust is on the rear bumper,
particularly behind the exhaust pipe on the passenger side. The frame
is getting a fair bit of rust, but the underbody looks like new. I
inspect that pretty well every 10K miles when I put it up on jack stands
to rotate the tires and grease it.
I wonder why yours has rusted out so much faster than mine. I do have a
cap on mine which has been on it since it was new so that keeps the rain
out of the bed and off the inside of the tailgate, so maybe that has
helped. Also, the truck has been garaged almost its entire life, but
I'm not sure that garaging a vehicle in the winter is a good thing.
Mine had rust behind the rear wheels where the holes were drilled for
the mud flaps. The original screws had rusted away and the paint was
flaking around the holes. I greased up the holes again as I did when I
first installed the mud flaps and replaced the original self-tapping
sheet metal screws with SS bolts, washers and nuts. I suspect the
fender will rust away now before I need to replace the mud flap bolts!
I probably should have used SS hardware in the beginning and maybe the
loose bolts wouldn't have worked the paint loose.
I drive mostly in NY also. I commute from Lawrenceville, PA to Corning
every day which is 5 miles in PA and 15 in NY and PA uses about as much
salt as does NY and a lot more cinders which is harder on the paint.
Maybe I just got lucky or maybe keeping it in the garage has helped.
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