Bill proven wrong some more (took some time).

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At one time, Holley Carburetors (Colt Industries) were involved in LPG carburetion and modified their gasoline carburetors to supply gaseous fuel. Very little is commonly known about Holley's propane carburetors and, to best of my knowledge, the only reference to them was made in Larry Carley's book.

Gerry Flood, currently of Firexonline was kind enough to provide us with photos of Holley propane carburetors from time he was in the propane conversion business in the early 1980's. His company, Rodagas Energy Systems, also had shops in Toronto and Detroit and converted

350+ vehicles to CNG and 100+ to LPG. They become involved with Holley because Holley was also in the Detroit area at that time. They never made any money on LPG as every conversion was a 'test' or 'trial'. The profit was in selling the fuel. They also converted 10-15 various vehicles to low pressure CNG and even converted a golf cart to CNG for the CEO of the local gas company. He believes that fuel cells and hydrogen are the future, but if one could clean out the impurities from natural gas and store it in carbon, then Natural Gas would be hard to beat.

One of his projects included the conversion of the entire Windsor, ON police department with Holley in the early 80's when they had Plymouth

318cid cruisers. He reports that the conversions worked fine except in the winter when they would chase speeders before their engines warmed up. Then they got a liquid lockup on the vaporizer. He advised them to carry a coke bottle full of water to pour on the vaporizer. Of course, by then, the speeder got away!

Mr Flood got out of the conversion business because he felt that propane was/is a fuel which could not become a major alternative as there is just not enough. They saw natural gas as the real alternative and worked with a consortium of 8 gas companies, including the gas companies in Toronto and Windsor, to develop low pressure CNG. By using a carbon adsorbent in a LPG tank and a refrigerator compressor, their idea was to fill up at home overnight without the high cost and complexity of 3,700psi compressed natural gas. It almost worked. They even used ceramics from the Royal Military College in Kingston. Natural gas is inherently dirty, which doesn't matter when it's burning in your furnace. It matters a lot when filling and emptying a clean carbon filter. It quickly clogs up!

His present mission to change the world is to market a vehicle fire suppression system principally for the Ford Crown Vic, which Ford has developed but can't/won't deliver. His company, Firexonline, is working with Nobel and they are about to introduce a fire suppression system based on their gas generator technology. The system delivers AFFF foam under the car when (or if) the gas tank ruptures and ignites.

He says that he was one of the early pioneers in alternative fuels and the biggest mistake he made was investing his own money! With gasoline prices skyrocketing today, he might want to reconsider getting back into the alternative fuel conversion business.

Holley 1-BBL Propane Carburetor

Holley 2-BBL Propane Carburetor

Holley 4-BBL Propane Carburetor

Holley Propane Regulator/Converter

Reply to
Bret Ludwig
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All very interesting, but I'm curious about that fire suppression system. Those kinds of ruptures and firs just aren't that common, what kind of market is he going after?

Jeff DeWitt

Bret Ludwig wrote:

Reply to
Jeff DeWitt

Who besides you gives a shit?

And if it took you that long to find that obscure of a 'one off' item to prove Bill wrong, you are a total fool. LOL!

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail >
Reply to
Mike Romain

Reply to
L.W.(Bill) Hughes III

I run LPG in my Wagoneer, so yes, I found it interesting.

Dave Milne, Scotland '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

Reply to
Dave Milne

Reply to
L.W.(Bill) Hughes III

Liar liar, pants on fire, you senile fool. You finally admitted it never happened. It never has and it can't.

I notice the writer of the article is

Since the gas is already gas it can't happen. And indeed it never did, as we proved last time you spouted this senile nonsense. Some drunken pal of yours had an accident with NITROUS OXIDE which has nothing to do with propane. Your mind is so far gone you can't even remember.

How do you thing A/C works??????? I think you

There were no such suits. You can't cite one.

Reply to
Bret Ludwig

It made power fine before.

Reply to
Bret Ludwig

Reply to
L.W.(Bill) Hughes III

Then he should have posted it as an information post, not as a troll post.

Mike

Dave Milne wrote:

Reply to
Mike Romain

Yup, it is quoted *when new* at 144hp for a 5.9 litre 360. Which is pitiful. If it had a more respectible 280hp, that would be enough. I wouldn't have thought that a drag racer like yourself would be defending

31hp per ton ?

Dave Milne, Scotland '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

Reply to
Dave Milne

I'm sure it makes close to 100% of what it did new - it only has 62K miles on it. Just 144hp is 50% of what I'd like.

Dave Milne, Scotland '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

Reply to
Dave Milne

So 'fix' it!

Go for a larger carb or jet or whatever puts the fuel in, a high flow intake with a set of headers and a nice hot coil. Maybe you can Cam it too.

There has to be a nicer or easier way to get oomph than replacing it....

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail >
Reply to
Mike Romain

I just did some digging and at least in 1998 that engine was rated at

225 hp and 335 ft/lb of torque.

Is that 144 with the LPG? It really does sound low.

If it was mine the first thing I'd do is give that engine a through going over including a compression test, timing and all that good stuff, and make sure everything is in good condition. I've driven one of those (would have liked to have kept it), and while it wasn't going to take on any 5.0 Mustangs it had plenty of pep.

If your timing is retarded, or if the timing chain was worn and jumped a notch that might cause your problem.

Whatever is going on unless there is something really wrong with that engine it's going to be a LOT cheaper to fix what you have than spend a bunch of money converting it to something else.

Jeff DeWitt

Dave Milne wrote:

Reply to
Jeff DeWitt

Well, here is where I got the info from:

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360 AMC V8 / OHV 90-91 144hp 280 lb/ft torque 2bbl Motorcraft.

Compression ratio is only 8.25 : 1

I guess I could try a new Edelbrock manifold and Performer carb.

Dave Milne, Scotland '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

Reply to
Dave Milne

You should be able to boost that up easily. Don't forget the exhaust, put more in and it has to have a place to go out...

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail >
Reply to
Mike Romain

Dave,

Somewhere in the range of years from 1971 to 1991 they derated these engines for emissions and reliability, plus changed the definition of horsepower or how it is measured. In other words some of the power loss you see in that table is real, and some isn't. I would caution against concluding that the vehicle is underpowered, just because some web page says so.

My advice is to fix stuff, i.e. verify that all systems are operating as designed, before adding stuff.

Earle

Reply to
Earle Horton

Bloodthirsty as always, aren't you Bill.

I've had several propane vehicles. None has ever done anything more dangerous than a loud backfire. Propane is inherently a safer motor fuel than gasoline.

Why you regurgitate spiteful and nonsensical things like you do is beyond me.

Reply to
Bret Ludwig

Reply to
L.W.(Bill) Hughes III

Sounds like a plan - will investigate that then. Cheers guys.

Dave Milne, Scotland '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

Reply to
Dave Milne

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