Brand new '89 YJ

The PO told us that the starter had died. This is most definitely not true, so it's kinda hard to believe anything he told us. Of course, it's been sitting for three years.

My p> Did the previous owner give any indication of problems?

Cool, try the booster cable to the body test anyway, that has started an amazing number of vehicles that I know of, especially rust belt ones...

You also need to verify those gas jets into the carb when you hit the throttle!

An induction timing light can 'Really' lie and show no flash if a 258 engine isn't getting gas. It is strange but very true. I, for one of many have chased spark parts all over only to find out the timing light I used as a benchmark wouldn't light with no gas present.

Had one with no light flash on cylinder 1 to 3 with a really bad idle and after swapping 'every' electrical part we figured out the damn carb had a blocked idle tube, which by the way is really common and easy to fix.

Mike

The Merg wrote:

I'll check for the gas, but if that were the problem wouldn't it have started at least for a second when we put gas in the carb? I did spray the carb down with tb cleaner, but didn't really give it a really thorough cleaning, which I'll do soon. (by the way, is there a difference between carb cleaner and TB cleaner?)

With the cable to body test, I'm essentially checking to see if my ground is screwed up?

Sorry for so many questions for explanations, but if I can understand the theory behind what you're telling me to check, I'll be better able to make sure I'm doing everything right - and next time, I won't have to bother you.

As always, thanks a lot.

Mike Roma> Cool, try the booster cable to the body test anyway, that has started an

Maybe, but you did mention dirty connections on the solenoid which can interfere with starting or maybe you needed a splash more gas... If you had fuel flow, the spark plugs would be wet with gas when you pulled them out. You don't mention that,...

Just a FYI, if the plugs are soaked with black goo from flooding, they need to be cleaned and dried to get it to start. A bad flood from a missed start or bad spark can really mess them up that way. Then when you fix the spark, it still won't go until the plugs get cleaned.

TB cleaner is just that, for throttle bodies. It is 'much' milder than carb cleaner and won't do near as good a job.

A carb kit for that Weber-Carter BBD is in the twenty buck range and is easy to put in. There are a couple tricks to make it easier than the directions imply.

That is correct. If the ground isn't strong, the ignition module won't turn on. It happens a lot on the old YJ's and CJ's.

No problem, it is good to understand why things get tested the way they do.

One thing to be aware of is the timing light you used to test for spark can and will lie to you if there isn't gas which is why I ask about test lights or meters instead.

You are welcome.

Mike

Don't know if this went through the first time...

Hey Mike, I just checked and...you were right. No fuel flow in the carb.

I wasn't sure if there was a legitimate difference between carb and tb cleaner or just a nominal one - I'll pick up some carb cleaner as soon as I can.

The sparks aren't in the best shape, and will be replaced, but we did pull, clean and regap them.

Mike Roma>> I'll check for the gas, but if that were the problem wouldn't it have

There might be no fuel in the tank or the gas filter might be on upside down or the gas has just evaporated.... They do not prime up easily!

The gas filter has two outlets, the center one goes to the carb and the top one goes to the return line. If the return line isn't up top, gas syphons back to the tank when it sits making cold stars a bugger.

Meanwhile I would try a few small shots of gas down the carb to see if it will fire and prime up.

Mike

The Merg wrote:

My pops put a few gallons in before we tried starting it, but it wouldn't hurt to get some more in there, I think.

I w> There might be no fuel in the tank or the gas filter might be on upside

If you replace the coil, I would highly recommend you upgrade it at this time.

I went with an Accel 'SuperCoil' and really liked the performance increase I noticed at the time and the gas mileage I get.

The best wires to get are actually from the $tealership! I seldom recommend them for parts, but the OEM wires are by 'far' the best ones.

Stay far far away from the Accel distributor cap and rotor and wires. They are very poorly made.

Pay close attention to the new distributor cap and rotor, OEM is best again for that. Aftermarket has some bad ones out there. The rotors are too short so they arc out all over the place very soon after being installed.

Oh and just FYI, the best repair manual for your engine and wiring is the Haynes CJ manual.

Mike

The Merg wrote:

Thanks Mike, Really? the Haynes CJ manual? I know they're cheap, but I was thinking of just buying the FSM. I already have the Haynes YJ manual. I'll stop by the stealership on my lunch break tomorrow and get the wires. I don't remember what brand the cap and rotor were, they were brand new sitting in the Jeep when we rolled it home, so we threw them in just to make sure that wasn't the problem. They'll do for now. And they have Accel at the auto parts store two doors down from where I work (where I 'never' usually shop, cause they're overpriced a-holes), so I'll go grab on of those. Depending on the prices, I might pick them up for a few more of my heeps, too.

Might as well ask - recommendations for spark plugs?

Mike Roma> If you replace the coil, I would highly recommend you upgrade it at this > time.

The trouble with the YJ books is they only gloss over the 258 engine and it's wiring whereas the CJ book specializes in it.

I have rewired a couple YJ engine bays due to fires and melted wires and the CJ book is the best one by far for that.

The 258 engine runs best on Champion spark plugs. There should be a sticker under the hood with the type. They will refuse to run with Bosch plugs for some reason.

Once you get it running, there are lots of tweaks around to make them just purr and fly depending on your interest in 'tweaking' things. No sense in going over much of that now until you get it going and see how it runs. If it has idle issues, there are quick fixes.

Mike

The Merg wrote:

Mike you are "one of the few"! Mercy, the parts situation is going to the dogs, or at least the Chinese!

I also put an Accel coil on my CJ, not sure which one but it fits in the standard bracket and has a Resin Core instead of oil to resist vibration. It gave a noticable smoothness to the idle.

If you are REALLY insistant, you can still get a good Cap and Rotor. Borg Warner still has available the good cap with the BRASS terminals and a decent rotor. You will most likely need to ASK for the BEST stuff to get it, everyone quotes prices on the Chinese Junk to keep from scaring off the "Bubba Mechanics".

Wires are even harder to find. The only ones I can recommend are the Belden brand, and make sure that when you open the box they are a Deep Navy Blue in color. These are the good ones and you won't have any problems with them. Belden makes wires for NASCAR, so they do know what is necessary to make a good wire.

Good Luck, Bruce

NAPA carries Belden. Belden is owned by Federal-Mogul.

Bruce,

I think I have tried every aftermarket 'performance' wire set made in the last 35 years or so and none have performed or stood up as well as the OEM ones from the $tealership.

I am now running on 7 years with the OEM Jeep plug wires in my CJ7.

'Performance' just means they will put out a nice clean spark... while they work.

They are designed to work for at least 'one' race.....

Like a 'performance' engine. Race cars change those every race or two also....

Accel wire are supposed to be 9mm 'performance' wires. Well they worked until I had to check my spark plugs, then every metal clip on the ends pulled off when I removed them. Half were arced out already which meant they were broken to start and had been jumping that gap since new.

Belden make cables. They are twice the price of the same cable from any competetitor just because of their name stamped in pure gold on the side of the cable. (it must be pure gold, nothing else justifies their price)

Just my $0.02....

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: N> Bruce,

One of the car rags did a test on aftermarket wires and agrees that they are mostly for separating you from your money on street vehicles. Even the performance wiring kits sold by dealers were worse than the stock ones for emissions and performance. The performance drop was at the higher rpms the wires claim to be good for.

Most also tend to make your radio and stereo quite noisy.

There used to be an old orange wiring kit that worked for drag racing, but I'd hate to make a very big bet that they really helped compared to factory.

Roughly the same marketing category as fancy audio wiring that cannot compete for performance with some really inexpensive alternatives.

Mike Romain proclaimed:

I would pull one spark plug out, plug in it's wire and hold it's base against the block to see if I had a spark.

Did you get a multimeter?

With it set on volts, see if you have power to the coil positive connection with the key in run. The do it on the coil negative with the key on start and see if the volts that show flicker up and down.

Then you can take the meter on 'ohms' and put it into the connection on the distributor to take a reading between the orange and purple wires. You should have between and 400 and 800 ohms there. If not suspect a bad pickup coil.

Then with the meter on ohms, you go from the coil positive to the coil negative. You should have between 1.13 and 1.23 ohms there.

You then go from the coil high tension center to the negative. You should have between 7700 ohms and 9300 ohms.

If all this checks out, then suspect the ignition module which is located 'way' down on the fender below the washer bottle.

I know no other ways to tell.

Mike

The Merg wrote:

Thanks Mike, we actually couldn't find the ignition module to save our lives. Looking at the YJ and CJ Haynes manuals, that seemed to be the only thing we hadn't checked, but the books never actually told us where to find the damn thing.

We've done most of those tests and all have come back fine - I need to try the ohms on the distributor wires tomorrow night.

This is easily the most frustrat> I would pull one spark plug out, plug in it's wire and hold it's base