Hybrids?

Think cost, if it cost $5000 more for a small car with a 2 L engine, imagine what a 6 L engine equivalent will do to the price of a car.

I also think POWER and the lack of it in a Hybrid. For hauling the heavy vehicles and pulling or carrying the loads that they would demand.

Ford is sending people all around the country to hold classes to 'teach' hybrid owners to get good gasoline mileages. It seems that the normal manner of driving the mileage is similar or worse.

But the most common reason in my way of thinking is the people who would be the first to buy a hybrid are not driving SUVs.

That is the same reason that the early hybrids were so ugly err unique looking......

Ford is also pushing an Ethanol vehicle, but since Ethanol is a deficit fuel it's just PR bullshit. Screw the facts, lets "feel good about it". You have to love those commercials with all those fresh-faced kids acting as though they just saved the world.

Ethanol is not really a Deficit fuel. We actually don't have enough farmers, like we did 30 years ago, to produce enough of it. We can also use different types of products to create ethanol. I am not really supporting it that much, i believe there are other alternatives that should be researched. The government is just looking for a bandaid, a quick fix. PR, that is a good quote also. The big three have posted huge losses lately. They need something fresh to spark people to buy their hugely overpriced vehicles. Not only that, for what you pay it isn't a very good investment when you loose 2000 to

4000 the minute you drive it off the lot. In some city's you can buy a cheap rental property for the same price of some of those vehicles.

My Honda Civic HX, model year 1999, gets 45 mpg on the highway, 40 more or less in the mountains where I live, and has a 1600 cc gasoline engine, no hybrid. I didn't need special classes either on how to drive it, to get this mileage. The Nevada state patrol clocked my youngest daughter in it doing 125. I assume that mileage went down a bit at that speed. ;^)

Hybrids are like the Emperor's New Clothes. There were a number of offerings like the Civic HX, but people wouldn't buy them. Make the engine smaller, load it down with expensive battery packs, and increase the price but not the fuel economy, and people will buy them. Go figure.

Earle

We were fresh faced kids once... our job was to protect the world from the 'evil empire'. It worked too... after 4 decades

Which "evil empire" are you talking about? ´Cause if it was that "military industrial complex" that Eisenhauer and Kennedy were afraid of, it's still alive and well. If it was the Warsaw Pact Eastern Bloc, it just collapsed under its own weight. Now if we are talking about the People's Republic of China, well all we did to them, was call them our friends and deny that they had ever been or done anything evil. There are only a few evil empires left, North Korea (can't even feed itself), Iran (lots of petroleum), and Europe.

Why do threads like this always wind up political? Well, that's what hybrid technology is, political.

Earle

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Europe isn't nearly organized enough to be called an empire

:-)

Dave

Excerpt from link below:

"...With the purchase price difference, depreciation and other costs like financing and insurance factored in, only the Toyota Prius and Honda Civic Hybrid would save owners any money -- $406 and $317, respectively, over 5 years. That final figure includes the impact of a federal tax incentives for hybrids. Without those incentives, Prius buyers face a net cost of ownership of $2,700 more than Corolla buyers.

Other hybrid vehicles would cost owners thousands more than non-hybrids over five years of ownership, even after federal tax credits.

For example, a Toyota Highlander Hybrid costs $7,185 more to purchase than the non-hybrid version. That results in $558 more in sales tax and $2,653 more in financing costs. It also will cost $358 more to insure for five years and $12 more in repair and maintenance costs. In addition, the hybrid will also lose 3.9 percent more in value than the non-hybrid.

The Highlander Hybrid will save you about $1,392 in gasoline over that time. So, even with a $2,200 federal tax credit in your bank account, the Highlander Hybrid will ultimately cost you $5,508 more after five years than a similarly-equipped non-hybrid Highlander...."

As a long time ramj+w lurker coming out I thought I would bring to the group's attention an interesting article about hybrids...

DCX, GM and BMW (in cooperation with each other) are developing hybrid RWD applications, GM with the GMT900 series, Chrysler Group with the Durango and BMW with ?

I suspect that sales of the big vehicles will be disappointing because the people that buy small hybrids are driven by a different buying interest than those that buy large pickups and SUV's. I don't see too many people spending 45 big for a Durango... (no prices have been announced, just speculation on my part).

But I do predict that when we have modern common rail diesel engines these will prove popular in larger trucks and SUV's.

"reboot" wrote

I suspect you are right.

"Hybrid" involves using a gasoline engine to make electricity that drives the car. It does save gas whenever, but only whenever, your car is idling at a stop or going very slowly. The mfgrs use it in small cars that are commonly used in such heavy traffic situations. But the multiple energy conversion (chemical ->

mechanical -> electric -> chemical (battery) -> electric -> mechanical) uses more gas in highway driving so it'll prolly prove unpopular in "highway" applications.

My 1957 Renault Dauphine got 42-45 MPG and my 1967 Fairlane got 18-21 MPG with a small V8 and auto trans. but, thanks to "smog" laws that went into effect in

1970, my buddy's 1972 Dodge with similar motor and tranny only gor 12-15MPG. Wonder what the Renault could have done with a modern computer managed FI engine???

Yup, what a snow job. The original 70's Honda Civic got 50 mpg if you drove it easy, same for the Austin Mini and they both went like scalded cats when tuned nice. I got clocked at 132 mph in one Mini I owned and it wasn't tached out.

I was as the Canadian Road Race of Champions on a Mosport track in the

70's and a Mini and Civic were nose and nose at the finish. They had lapped 3rd place which was a Porsche Turbo Carrera with a Vett or Camaro bringing up a dismal 4th.

I got a nice 25% increase in fuel mileage up to 23 mpg in my CJ7 when I killed the 'emissions' computer and it still has really low emissions numbers.

The new engines are pigs in comparison.

Mike

So I am driving an economy car now?

Earle

We get 23 mpg in our CJ7 and 26 or more highway in our Cherokee which fits most mid sized cars, not big SUV's....

Mike

Earle Hort>