Oil Consumption 2000 JGC V-8

Talk about biting the hand that feeds you, considering his daddy's ties to Big Oil over the years....

Exactly, the same place the esters used in PAO come from (although some are made from natural gas which is also a petrochemical)

I paid $1 a quart for the Phillips 66 semi-synthetic 10w-30 I've been using for a year and a half now. Pennzoil 20w-50 sells for $2.68/qt here.

I bought all the remaining stock, of that oil, when a local retailer decided to drop the Phillips 66 line.

I still have 2 full cases left in addition to the loose bottles on the garage shelf..

But to use your argument... since synthetic is actually derived from dino oil then I'm just explaining there are better refined dino oils with superior properties....

If your argument is carried in another direction you are proposing that we use crude oil, straight out of the well, in out motors because it requires less addition energy in its production.

Errata: The current theory is that oil comes from plant decay, it is probably incorrect to refer to, therefore, as dino spit.

They will be laughing at you from their ten speeds with kiddie trailers attached.

Earle

1st Google "ester petrochemical" and look at some of the 149,000 hits that were returned in 0.05 seconds Results 1 - 10 of about 149,000 for ester petrochemical. (0.05 seconds)

2nd Using AMSoil as a reference is questionable in itself but using your own reference (and I will quote in part) "... Further, the SAE Automotive Lubricants Reference Book, an extensively peer-reviewed publication, states base oils made through the processes used to create Shell's hydroisomerized basestock, severe cracking, and reforming processes may be marketed as "synthetic."

From this we gather that the SAE accepts 'purified Group III oils as fitting within their definition of the term 'synthetic'.

Further on in your reference we find the lubricant industry agreed with Castrol's position "...In a statement to Lubricants World, Castrol's legal counsel said, "The NAD's decision was clearly correct. In accepting Castrol's position on the appropriate definition of synthetic basestock and concluding that Castrol Syntec is a fully synthetic oil, the NAD accepted the overwhelming evidence Castrol presented, which included the opinions of leading scientists . . .and statements from Shell, Exxon, and other industry sources. "

A bit further in your reference notes ..."The NAD also relied on the SAE's rejection of a restrictive definition of the type advanced by Mobil".

And concludes..." In fact, although it had the right to do so, Mobil did not attempt to appeal the NADS's decision."

As for the change in formulations you certainly know that changes are commonplace, there are many 'name brand' oils that have changed substantially.... for example I doubt you would use the SB Pennzoil use originally used in your T-Bird

and another quote from your reference... " In response to Mobil's contention that Castrol deceived its consumers by not informing them of the change in the formulation, the advertiser submitted a statement by Richard Kabel, a motor oil expert. Kabel asserted that motor oil manufacturers, including Mobil, regularly make changes in their formulations without disclosing these changes to consumers. He stated that the industry certification and licensing program is designed to provide motor oil manufacturers with the flexibility to modify their formulations as long as the oil continues to meet industry standards,"

Mobil did offer in its lawsuit definitions from two chemistry professors (Please note: their arguments were rejected by both the lubricants industry and the court)

"In the complaint filed by Mobil against Castrol's Syntec, the PAO manufacturer contended true synthetics had to be formulated from small molecules subject to a chemical reaction, not built from natural petroleum.

Mobil submitted testimony from Professor J.M. Perez, a lubrication and technology expert from Pennsylvania State University, who told the NAD that true synthetics require "the formation of chemical products from simple well-defined molecules by synthesis or chemical reaction." Perez cited isomerization, reforming, hydrotreating, and hydrocracking as some of the many chemical and physical processing steps applied to petroleum to produce a variety of useful products, but said that they do not produce synthetic products. He argued that hydroisomerization does not create synthetic material because it does not create or build molecules, but merely rearranges the same molecules that were present in the original petroleum fraction.

Professor O.L. Chapman, an expert in synthetic chemistry from the University of California, also testified that synthetic materials are constructed from pure compounds that are themselves not natural and that the resulting synthetic material has well-defined properties. PAO and ester, he said, are built from pure small molecules that have already been subject to a chemical reaction, and are not built from natural petroleum. "

The next few paragraphs that Mobile attempted to use against Castrol actually reinforce the description I gave for how the 'synthetic oil' is made but then I have the benefit of (compared to a shyster) knowing a little bit about chemistry and hindsight as this was happening in the late 90s.

Wishing to stay out of Mobil's lawsuits the SAE dropped their definition of 'synthetic'

The ASTM was consulted... "ASTM D 4175 from the American Society for Testing and Materials. In this case, synthetic is defined as originating from the chemical synthesis of relatively pure organic compounds from one or more of a wide variety of raw materials." Please note the phrases "relatively pure" and "wide variety of raw materials" and refer back to my definition of synthetic.

Chevron management has been quoted... "What we really think will come out of this decision is an awareness that several types of stocks, particularly some newer UCNOs, justifiably can be considered synthetic and are viable basestocks for the formulation of top-quality synthetic lubricants. In other words, the decision sends a message that 'synthetic' is not synonymous with 'PAO'".

"Peer reviewed" means "You scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours." ;^)

Earle

of course its not enough,his daddy made a fortune selling "gortex" rainware to military....i love those democrats!!!!

writesoon!

Only AlGore's illegal campaign contributors will have bicycles, everyone else will be walking shod in sandals made of old tire casings and fondly remembering when Jeeps were legal and plentiful and women could get treatment for breast cancer.

Is he getting money from that? Dang it.... I'm gonna have to throw away my cold weather gear...

I already had to change ketchup suppliers .... luckily it turns out a local company make a superior product.

Could be but they set the accepted industry standards.

That DexCool you paid $10.99 for six months ago sells for $9.88 at our version of Kragen's today.

What was the name of Pennzoil's Diesel oils back-in-the-day? Something like Zoildeeze and another was Series 3?

Those extended guard filters are only available at NAPA around here, even the Fram only stores don't carry them...

Ya know... I just looked at the spec sheets and Delo 400, Delvac 1300, and the old formula Rotella T are only rated as an (automotive rating) SJ usable up to 2001 vehicles.

Only Shell's new Rotella T Triple Protection (released July 1st) meets the current automotive (SM) standard in 10w-30 and 15w-40 grades.

Heck, if he was Republican he'd be applauded!!

This is odd.. I just returned from a 2500 mile trip. I have a 2003 Overland and noticed the exact same problem. I also have used Mobil One since new and never used any oil until this trip. I did change the oil filter I use to a Napa Gold from a Fram TuffGuard but everything else is the same. I have 110K on my engine. Some people (in the far past) used to claim that Mobile One would evaporate. Have they changed the formulation again and possibly causing a problem. Sounds silly but I'm curious because of all the new types they are selling as extended oils.