OT - I just got this in my email and thought I would share

The thing didn't start until February? Six months ago? The Iraq war began March 20, 2003. Bush declared the end of major combat operations (when Bush landed on the carrier, where the "Mission Accomplished" banner was prominently posted) on May 1, 2003. By my calendar that was over a year ago...

Jeez, this kind of ignorance is dangerous...

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Unfortunately,

Would you mind identifying that one particular Sunni? I'm curious given there is nobody that matches that description. Also, how does your analysis explain the fact that the US is currently embroiled in battles with Shia Muslims throughout the southern part of Iraq? You are correct that most Iraqis were happy to be liberated. However, it is equally correct to say that most Iraqis would now like the US to leave.

Fair enough. Would you mind detailing some of the "largesse" of which you speak?

Well, bullshit or not, thems the facts. See the chart on this page and compares France's aid contributions to those of the US:

None. I was agreeing with you.

Humm. I thought the whole point of your posting was that we not could could walk away from Iraq, but should walk away within 60 days. Now all of a sudden, we can't walk away. Which is it?

This is even more nonsensical than the original sentence. Are you aware that countries other than America speak English? Are you aware that the language is called "English" rather than "American" because it originated in England? And are you further aware that England had more to do with spreading English than any other nation? In fact, were it not for the English monarchy, you might be speaking Spanish or French yourself. Do you really believe that a Nigerian who is capable of reading this article in English as a result of his country having been colonized by England has America to thank?

I would not even have bothered to reply to this post had it not been for this line. As Samuel Johnson said, "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." Where have I said anything that suggests I "hate" America? If spreading ignorance is American, then perhaps you are right. I do hate ignorance.

Dude, don't bogart the whole bong. Pass that shit!

Uh, I think your calendar is still turned to 2003. You might want to hump your butt down to the local bookstore and pick up a 2004 version. You do know we invaded Iraq LAST year don't you?

How is that a contradiction? Israel is far and away the largest recipient of US assistance. Israel gets more than the entire continent of Africa (if you don't count Egypt whose aid is in return for making peace with Israel). Israel could get $10 billion (actually they don't, but they could) and the entire budget could still be $18 billion. In fact, the budget is $18 billion. Look it up.

Ok, let's accept your figure of $60 billion per year. Most subsidies actually support US producers, but lets not quibble. The Iraq war has cost over $125 billion so far. That money will run out before Oct., so Bush will soon be asking for more. Then, the FY 2005 budget will include even more. So, we could be looking at expenditures of over $200 billion by this time next year. How is that a blip on the radar? If you think $60 billion is worth getting worked up over, then what do you have to say about $200 billion?

I th " What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is."

hehe...

actually my calendar WAS wrong....lol...shows you how much i use that thing....

Al-Sadr is the guy I was referring to. He is a powerful cleric, and he has no position in the new government. He is pissed that the Shites are top dogs now after his Sunni bretheren have been the top dog for so long.

I'm curious given

It's the Sunnis that arre leading the majority of the insurgancy. Yes, there are pockets of insurgants that I can't explain, but we can be relatively certain they are extremists of their faith, not main stream.

And, the US will be happy to leave as soon as we are sure there will not be a civil war that develops in the vacuum that will be caused.

America is the largest trading partner of almost all of these. But, our largesse is what bails them out of various disasters that befall them all from time to time. We bailed the French out in WWII. We rebuilt Germany after WWII. We forgave billions in debt that; Russia has racked up. Yes, my friend, American largesse has benefitted each of these countries, and they decry our efforts all of the way to the bank.

These numbers are "asdjusted for inflatiion" so to speak. They are not raw numbers that shows that any country contributes X number of dollars, they are "corrected" numbers that show the relative contribution in each category measured. If the United States has an economy that churns out trillions in goods and services, but gives a mere 100 billion in aid, and another country has a paltry few hundred billion in GDP, but gives 50 billion in aid, then that country will fair better in this report because its contribution relative to its ability to contribute is higher, but the contribution is still much smaller.

Were it not for the English monarchy, the entire planet might be speaking Spanish or French because America would still have bailed out the rest of the world, yes, even the English monarchy has benefitted from our might, and we kicked their butts too.

You hate America so much, you can't even have a little fun with a play on words. Sheesh! Take it easy dude, life's much too short to come unraveled by wishful thinking.

I think that what Bill is saying here is, if you are going to complain about how your country is being run, you should try standing in defense of it first, then complain later. At least Kerry got that part right.

When the aircraft carrier flew the 'mission accomplished' banner, that was a fact. Their mission had been accomplished. You're referring to the 'end of major combat' which was also a fact. There have been no Republican Guard tank units defending or attacking since the 'end of major combat', which, by the way, was a statement requested by General Franks as a salute to the troops.

There have been more people murdered in the state of Texas since the 'end of major combat' then American deaths in the entire Iraq war. The same is true of California, so we have had over three times the Iraqi death rate right here in only two states. Perspective is important.

The battles for Fallujah, Najaf and Sadr city have been less than stellar, primarily for political reasons. Now that the Iraqis can take the heat, those holdouts will also end.

Iraq has more water, more power and is shipping more oil than pre-war levels. Most schools have been rebuilt and opened. Most children are attending school, most stores are open and life is back to 'normal' for many of the Iraqis.

The oil exports have been cut from 1.9 to 1.1 million barrels per day to a damaged pipeline.

Hey Matt, this is one of the better efforts at putting lipstick on a pig that I've seen in some time. A valiant effort indeed. There have also been more US soldiers killed in Iraq since the "end of major combat operations", so one wonders what mission was actually accomplished. You cite statistics in Texas and California. Texas has a population of over

20 million. California has a population of over 34 million. The number of US soldiers in Iraq is around 138,000. So, if you get per capita death rates, I'm sure your comparison won't look so rosy. Never mind the fact that the "low" number of over 900 dead Americans means 900 grieving families who don't really care how the rate compares to Texas or California. As you say "perspective is important".

Today the Iraqi governor of Najaf placed Iraqi police and national guard units under the command of US forces and gave the Americans permission to enter the Shrine of Ali, the holiest mosque to Shia muslims. It will be Americans taking the heat if that happens.

Wrong, wrong, and wrong.

This is greatly exaggerated. All these things were happening prior to the war anyway.

Before the war, Iraq exported more than 2 million barrels per day. They haven't pumped anything the last two days and the only exports were from storage tanks.

Here is a current report from a reporter who previously was praising the reconstruction effort:

"Most Iraqis aren't seeing the improvements they had hoped for, and they're not blaming the guerillas - they're blaming the Americans. Sovereignty seems to have had zero effect on this equation."

"It's now August, and that goal still hasn't been reached. Throughout much of the country, the power goes off for half the day or more. That has meant another summer of babies sweltering in 120-degree apartments, of factories that can't run, of despair turning to hatred."

"A near-total lack of visible progress has prompted even the most pro-Western Iraqis to lose faith in the capabilities - and worse, the intentions - of the United States."

Al-Sadr is a Shia, not a Sunni. He is not pissed that Shia are top dogs, he thinks they should be top dogs. His father and brothers were killed by Saddam. He is exactly the type of guy who should be supporting the US. Instead, he is currently fighting to the death inside the holiest Shia shrine.

I'm curious, is there a statute of limitations on how long you can drag out saving the French in WWII? After all, the French were quite helpful to the colonies in the American revolution. Directly across from the White House lies Lafayette Square with a statue of Marquis de Lafayette. Should the French be rubbing our faces in that?

Am I the only one that read this with G.W.'s voice in my head? n.

It is the Iraqis ordering the operation. The Iraqis will take the heat for the operation. The Americans will, as usual, take the casualties.

Sure it was.

Which is less than they're shipping today.

Before the war it was Baghdad that got all the power (whatever there was), now it is more evenly distributed.

Here, read somebody who has something to say (last March)

Iraq's vital signs one year later :

April 2003 March 2004 Electricity (megawatts per day; prewar level: 4,400) 3,000 4,200

Oil Production (millions of barrels/day; prewar level: 2.9) 0 2.5

Potable Water Supply (millions liters/day; prewar level: 13) 4 22

Unemployment Rate (approx. prewar level: 50-60) 60% 45%

Health Budget (in millions) $16 $950 (2002)

Teacher Salaries (monthly average

$40 $120 (2002)

One of the biggest problems in Iraq (much of the middle east, actually) is the socialism. There is no industry (aside from the military) and agricultural jobs are like everywhere else, minimal.

Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Kuwait pay money from oil revenues for 'busy work'. We fired the army (mistake in my opinion) so there just isn't work to be had. Until we start paying people for busy work (rehire the army) there are going to be complaints. This has nothing to do with the Americans; nobody gave a damn before we came.

Just ask yourself where are the reports on Iraqi reconstruction? We have them from 6 months ago, but none from today. Why is that? All those big billion dollar projects are under way and we see no news; why is that?

Surely you and Bill aren't implying that ONLY those that has served in the military has the right to complain about the politics and leadership of the USA. While the choice to serve militarily is an honorable one, it is just that, a CHOICE. The alternative based on your implication is a military dictatorship.

Now, if you don't vote, and therefore do not involve yourself in the political process, then I would agree that you don't have the right to complain.