At last - the 90 returns, 5" shorter and 100% better

I think for a "daylight" MoT all you need is brake lights and number plates.

Technically now should go onto a Q plate, as in order to retain the original reg the chassis should be unmodified, and cutting and shutting to shorten the chassis counts a modification because the wheel base has been altered. Also lost points for swapping out the gearbox and replacing with a different sort.

Had similar discussions with local DVLA when building my RR based hybrid. Decided to leave it at 100" and remove the rear overhang where the fuel tank sits. My local DVLA office was happy with this, but insisted that if I shortened the wheelbase then I would have to apply for a Q plate.

-- Simon Isaacs

Peterborough 4x4 Club Chairman and Webmaster

I have not heard of a Daylight only MOT, and my understanding is that if a vehicle was originally designed (type approved) to have lights it must have them now. If it's not the original, ie a new design, then it will need an SVA, and therefore definatly need lights etc.

As for the Q plate and the shortened chassis, i think the person at the DVLA was mistaken, the points system makes reference to the original chassis, and shortening the oringinal still makes it the original, only shorter! Would all Landy's with replacent rear chassis, go on a Q? because it's not the original?.

I spoke at length to one of the DVLA men in the Sheffield area, and all they can go on is the paperwork you have, or don't have, and their own knowlede of the vehicles they look at. So if he has no idea what makes a Landy then he won't be able to disprove that the axle he is looking at etc is not the original, and therefore he has to take it as the original. I ended up talking to him for about an hour, very interesting!

Gary

Paul Everett wrote:

Pictures damn it we want pictures

Please ?

This is all very well until you have a crash that is your own fault, then your insurance company will do everything they can to prevent paying out, which may include examining your vehicle. If they decide you're been telling porkies, then they'll declare your insurance void, and you have big problems. Easier just to get a Q plate and keep it nice and legal.

And what does your wife think to it or have you been mean and not let her drive it?

That web page has been the same for at least 7 years, DVLA have changed many of their policies since then and you'll find their people on the ground, their inspectors, don't follow it anymore. They will only issue a Q plate these days if there is no alternative. The local DVLA inspector has already confirmed that my 110 (now 100 inch bob tailed) can retain it's original registration and VIN. OTOH were it tax exempt... well that would be a different matter altogether !

You should notify your insurance company of all modifications made every time you renew your insurance or at the time the modifications are made. Preferable you should provide photographs too. Any modified vehicle should be insured through a specialist broker who understands these things. You may be required to supply an engineers report to certify that the modifications have been carried out correctly and proficiently. Many insurance companies will not touch a modified vehicle.

cheers

Dave W.

On or around Sat, 15 Nov 2003 17:36:55 -0000, "Richard Brookman" enlightened us thusly:

horn.

I don't think you need lights, if you only take it out in daytime, but it might depend on the year of manufacture.

you might need side lights, but not headlamps.

hmmm.

road vehicles (lighting) regulations 1989 has this, in exemptions (general)

(3) Nothing in these Regulations shall require any lamp or reflector to be fitted between sunrise and sunset to :- (a) a vehicle not fitted with any front or rear position lamp, (b) an incomplete vehicle proceeding to a works for completion, (c) a pedal cycle, (d) a pedestrian-controlled vehicle, (e) a horse-drawn vehicle, (f) a vehicle drawn or propelled by hand, or (g) a combat vehicle.

(4) Without prejudice to regulation 16, for the purposes of these Regulations a lamp shall not be treated as being a lamp if it is :- (a) so painted over or masked that it is not capable of being immediately used or readily put to use; or (b) an electric lamp which is not provided with any system of wiring by means of which that lamp is, or can readily be, connected with a source of electricity.

some gems from C&U:

E - Vision

1. View to the front (1) Every motor vehicle shall be so designed and constructed that the driver thereof while controlling the vehicle can at all times have a full view of the road and traffic ahead of the motor vehicle. (2) Instead of complying with the requirement of paragraph (1) a vehicle may comply with Community Directive 77/649, 81/643, 88/366, 90/630 or, in the case of an agricultural motor vehicle, 79/1073. (3) All glass or other transparent material fitted to a motor vehicle shall be maintained in such condition that it does not obscure the vision of the driver while the vehicle is being driven on a road.

1. Audible warning instruments (1) (a) Subject to sub-paragraph (b), every motor vehicle which has a maximum speed of more than 20 mph shall be fitted with a horn, not being a reversing alarm or a two-tone horn.

2. Seat belts (1) This regulation applies to every vehicle to which regulation 46 applies. (2) Save as provided in paragraph (4) a vehicle to which :- (a) this regulation applies which was first used before 1st April 1981 shall be provided with :- (i) a body-restraining belt, designed for use by an adult, for the driver?s seat; and (ii) a body-restraining seat belt for the specified passenger?s seat (if any); (b) this regulation applies which is first used on or after 1st April 1981 shall be provided with three-point seat belts for the driver?s seat and for the specified passenger?s seat (if any);

You also have to have hazard warning system fitted on a post-86 vehicle, in addition to the indicators.

|| || And what does your wife think to it or have you been mean and not || let her drive it? || -- || Nikki ||

Dammit, she's had more time behind the wheel than I have! We drove it round the fields and through the woods all yesterday afternoon, and my main job was to sit in the passenger seat, offer advice (ignored) and open gates. Seriously, the autobox was for her, as she has had a number of spinal ops and has a very weak left leg, and was finding changing gear very difficult. I had one of those very "personal" moments while sitting somewhere quiet yesterday, where I realised that I had married someone who enjoys all the things I like as much as I do (including, but not limited to, Land Rovers and the associated lunacy :-). I feel pretty lucky. After all, she tells everyone who will listen that the only reason she smacked the Landy up so badly at its last trial was so I would get my *rse into gear and get the thing properly modified. Atta girl!

|| || || Pictures damn it we want pictures || || || || || Please ? || ||

I don't have a website, so how can I put piccies up for general viewing? If you tell me how, I'll do it.

You can email them to me and I will host them and post a link for all

(remove the obvious in the email address )

|| || horn. || || || You also have to have hazard warning system fitted on a post-86 || vehicle, in addition to the indicators. || ||

Thanks for this, Austin. I genuinely want to keep it legal, but I also genuinely want to have the minimum hassle and expense to make it so. Where can I get a copy of the C&U regs? I've tried the DfT website, but it will only return specific amendments to regulations, not a full list of the regs themselves. I'm willing to buy a hard copy, but the HMSO website doesn't seem to mention them at all.

As to the DVLA, I think I need to talk to them, having read all the other posts. The chassis has been modified (ie shortened) and the rear 3/4 replaced due to tinworm, and the engine was replaced 2 yrs ago with the V8. However, the axles and transmission are the same. Time to count the points, I think, and talk to my tame MoT person.

Thanks to all for the advice.

Hi Richard,

Sign up to

Failing that email them to me (not forgetting to take the piss) and I'll post them on my site.

Cheers

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 '77 101FC Ambulance '95 Discovery V8i

|| Hi Richard, || || Sign up to

Thanks Tim - I'll give webshots a go first.

I think you need to look at section B. Radically Altered Vehicles, this would give you the option of the points system i was refering to. As for the insurance thing, you need to tell the insurance of all your mods, then you are covered.

Gary

Paul Everett wrote:

|| I think you need to look at section B. Radically Altered Vehicles, || this would give you the option of the points system i was refering || to. As for the insurance thing, you need to tell the insurance of || all your mods, then you are covered. || || Gary ||

Yep, thanks, been there and had a look. I have enough points to keep the original number IF they don't say the chassis is modified. It's the original chassis, but now a bit shorter (5" chopped from the middle). That sounds modified to me, but I will contact them and check. If the chassis counts as OK, then I have well over the 8 points required. Other than that, it's a Q plate.

As to insurance, I am always very careful. I doubt if NFU will want to reinsure it, but I am told that there are a number of specialists like Firebond who will accept it.

I've also had a long trawl through the MoT website. AFAICS, it only needs a horn and mirrors (and to pass the emissions test, cough cough) as long as I "claim" that I will only use it in daylight hours and good visibility. That's OK by me, but I'm sure it can't be *that* simple.

|| Tim Hobbs wrote: || |||| Hi Richard, |||| |||| Sign up to

Right, done that. URL is:

Thanks again, Tim.

Consider yourself a very lucky lad then.

||

||| || Consider yourself a very lucky lad then. || -- || Nikki || || 1990 Discovery V8i || 1985 Range Rover V8 || 1975 88" Series 3, 2.25 petrol

Oh I do, Nikki, I do!