Self-levelling would be great for all lights, but at some stage the cost vs benefits have to be taken into account, and it's a bloody expensive addition to a standard lighting setup for a fairly minor reduction in dazzling. OTOH with a HID setups ability to dazzle very severely the benefits become worth the additional expense.
I was just about to say that..... :-) Badger.
On or around Wed, 25 Jan 2006 17:47:16 +1300, EMB enlightened us thusly:
I'll have to finish sorting my revised lighting regulations...
Think of how much light those candles put out. HID bubbles put out far more lumens than ordinary tungsten halogen bubbles. After that, as EMB says, it's a cost/benefit thing.
Aha - so HID is (much) brighter than standard then. ok - hypothetically speaking, would self dimmers achieve the same result (anti dazzle) I wonder?
Because HiD lamps are much brighter and have a much more distinct cut-off pattern which causes much more annoyance and dazzling.
What do you mean by "self dimmers"?
HID stands for High Intensity Discharge, that is they are a form of arc lamp. Hence the electronic ballast box to provide the high voltage to strike the arc from cold and control the current once struck.
Discharge lamps are not easy to dim electrically. HMI TV/film lamps have a dimmer built into the ballast but it hasn't much range. Nothing like a tungsten dimmer can do.
Hi Austin,
I coming to the conclusion that conversation kits are not street legal. What do you make of the comments at the bottom of this page:
"LEGALITY NOTES ON ROAD LEGALITY AND QUALITY OF OUR HID :
Both versions of our HID systems are DOT approved, MOT approved and fully E-compliant in all safety, E.M. emmission and performance specifications. As far as we are aware these are the only HID kits on the market that meet all these requirements. This makes our kits ROAD LEGAL ; there is a lot of misinformation regarding the legality of HID systems fitted to cars without headlamp power wash and rear axle self levelling ...these are only an E.U. legal requirement on Xenon systems fitted to NEW cars AT THE FACTORY PRODUCTION STAGE . HID systems fitted as aftermarket accessory DO NOT REQUIRE the car to have power wash or self levelling ; even the DOT get this wrong sometimes .... our expensive lawyers did not ! "
regards
nemo2
No, but you then fall foul of construction and use or more likely type approval regs for the particular vehicle, which in theory would possibly then require SVA in the uk. Badger.
Why do they change from using "HID systems" to "Xenon systems" at a crucial point in the text?
AIUI Xenon is just a variant on ordinary, incandescant, halogen bulb technology rather than a discharge lamp technology as in HID. HID bulbs may well contain Xenon but so do some incandescant halogen bulbs.
As they say "there is a lot of misinformation" and they don't help.
On or around Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:51:24 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice" enlightened us thusly:
sounds like a fudge, to me. but they may be right. I wouldn't take bets on the type approval thing, though. I've yet to track down the actual legislation, partly through lack of effort, I must admit.
I havn't researched this properly but type approval and similar rules only usually apply to new vehicles being offered for sale or vehicles being imported. The SVA thing provides a safety inspection where no type approval certicate exists.
Type approval is a way for the manufacturers to 'certify' the safety of their product in bulk without having to deal with each vehicle individually.
Subject to all the usual caveats about the modified vehicle having to meet all relevant regulations, not upsetting your insurer etc., I don't how any modification by an end user can have anything to do with type approval.
If I am not mistaken I have these fitted to Owl. Personally I'm not a big fan - the difference between them and my Vision Pluses in the Discovery is that I can actually see further with the Vision pluses!
The nice bright Xenons have a very sharp cut off - and it's not very far in front of the vehicle. Would be willing to demonstrate on a dark night at a show.
Please note these are factory fitted and have self levellers.
I think the issue is that by modifying the vehicle you put it into a condition in which it did not receive approval, thereby invalidating such approval. It's all complex, but apparently VOSA are looking at new legislation for us MOT testers whereby we'll be checking even more stringently than current that a vehicle is actually what it claims to be, prior to MOTing it. By the sounds of things they're trying to catch the likes of a V8 90 with a 2A chassis number to stop the free tax loophole. There was also an article in one of the customising comics (magazine with scantily clad bimbos draped over fancy mobile stereos) recently which went into more detail and ended with the conclusion that if you fitted a spoiler you'd be in the SVA trap. When all this is likely to come into force I have no idea, but it will happen ,and aftermarket goodies of almost any kind - not just xenon HID kits -will catch you out. (different sized wheels from std spec, bodykits, custom paintwork maybe, aftermarket exhausts, lowered suspension etc etc) Personally, I believe aftermarket HID's are so bloody dangerous because of the dazzle factor that they ought to be banned. As has already been said further up the thread, there is simply no need for a dipped beam lamp to be that intense and no sane right to be going faster than the limits of dipped beam illumination safely allows. Badger.
On or around Thu, 26 Jan 2006 09:10:50 +0000 (UTC), "Neil Brownlee" enlightened us thusly:
I think you do have 'em on a rangie 3.
the vision plus bulbs are good, I've got 'em, including one in the bike headlamp. And they give correct beam shapes in normal reflectors.
aye - such a system (type aproval) has been in place for some years in Germany - we'd be getting it in the name of harmonisation with our euro-neighbours.
I understand it's widely supported by manufacturers/importers as they get to define the spec making their own aftermarket products easier to bring to market.
Lots of info/rumour/speculation/gossip on this in custom motorcycle circles.
Agreed, I think Austin may have confused "type approval" with "construction and use".
On or around Thu, 26 Jan 2006 10:30:19 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice" enlightened us thusly:
no, I didn't. I can't find any reference to lights in C&U - the lights are in Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations. I imagine that the HID lights are in an update to that but as yet I've not actually found it.
The comment about type approval is that the vehicle is, as Badger (I think) pointed out - modifying the vehicle to an extent which it is no longer the vehicle that was approved.
It was a vision plus bulb that blew which prompted me to start this thread as I need to purchase some replacements.
I've decided not to fit a hud conversion kit, for a number of reasons all of which have been mentioned above. There were also 2 other reasons that I don't believe were mentioned above and these are long term reliablity of bixenons as my Discovery has H4 bulbs that have dual dip/high beam filaments and the time for HID's to strike when you flash somebody.
I thinking of giving the Osram Silver Star bulbs a try, £18.45 from
Now where did I put that decision making too, ah there it is...........Heads I buy........... tails I buy..............
regards
nemo2
PS. Thanks to everybody for your comments and advice.
Apologies.
A quick google doesn't through up anything other than many multiple posts of an old letter proporting to come from the "powers that be" saying that HID is not mentioned in the RVLR therefore they are illegal. New cars can have them provided they have EU type approval. The UK cannot refuse to license a vehicle that has EU type approval.
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