Rivnut tool?

Townely is/was the most amazing place, all kinds of engineering junk - well it was unless you wanted it, like gearboxes, motors, parts of lathes, switches relays, chinks of metal.

It is a pale shadow of what it was 10 years ago, when it had a wonderfully eccentric "keeper of the parts", who would spend ages preparing the next catalogues, which would be barely distinguishable from the last 10.

If anyone here wants anything, or wants me to collect it for them (Eastnor anyone), I'll be happy to do so.

We may have met your sister, since we were witnesses for two of our friends in Tod 5 years back.

Steve

Ah I was giving and example to show the curious what the Nut looked like unless replaced.Now if thats the problem there are few alternatives and like you say M6 seems to be the largest common size -not sure what loading they are capable of but at least no expensive special tool required- 45p? . Interesting site anyway

Derek

||| Except that the mudflap fastenings aren't blind like the door panel ||| of a Disco, which is the reason for using rivnuts in the first ||| place.

|| Ah I was giving and example to show the curious what the Nut looked || like unless replaced.Now if thats the problem || there are few alternatives and like you say M6 seems to be the || largest common size -not sure what loading they are capable of but || at least no expensive special tool required- 45p? . Interesting site || anyway

|| || Derek

I found the Prifast site on my travels, but not the jacknut. Never heard of them before, but it looks like it might do the trick. Looks like a rivnut, but collapses into three legs rather than an expanded band. Looking at the "special tool 45p", it looks exactly like what LR sent with the ladder, except it has raised pips around the hole to stop the jacknut turning. This is just what I had to do to my metal bar - stake a couple of sharp edges around the hole with a centre punch, which prevented the rivnut turning with the bolt.

Brilliant, thanks - I'll give 'em a ring tomorrow.

The usual trick is to use a spring washer adjacent to the Rivnut.

glad it looks to be of use will you let us know how you get on I fancy slinging a few in the toolbox I can think of a couple of times when I've lost captive nuts that would have been the solution. Derek

Yup, now I've seen they do the jacknuts in packets of 100 I have been thinking of all sorts of uses.

|| Richard Brookman wrote: || ||| This is just what I had to do to my metal bar - stake a couple of ||| sharp edges around the hole with a centre punch, which prevented ||| the rivnut turning with the bolt. ||| ||| Brilliant, thanks - I'll give 'em a ring tomorrow. || || The usual trick is to use a spring washer adjacent to the Rivnut.

Ah! Horse, bolt, door, stable, gone.

Was setting some nuts at work yesterday, and they were doing exactly what you describe, i.e. rolling up out of the hole rather than setting under the sheet. After much buggering about, I changed tool, and used the works tool rather than my own (pretty much identical, at first glance) With that tool, the nuts set perfectly every time, on further examination, the only difference between the 2 tools is that the works tool has a very shallow circumferential grove in the nozzle, so that the rim of the nut sits in a grove and is prevented from splaying out.

So it would seem the answer to your original problem would be to somehow make a groove in the washer, just big enough to seat the rim of the nut. Do you know anyone with a lathe?

Austin ?

Steve

I have a lathe if that helps.

(Trowbridge, Wiltshire)

Cheers

Peter

|| ||| ||| So it would seem the answer to your original problem would be to ||| somehow make a groove in the washer, just big enough to seat the ||| rim of the nut. Do you know anyone with a lathe? ||| ||| || I have a lathe if that helps. || || (Trowbridge, Wiltshire) || || Cheers || || Peter

Thanks for the offers of help chaps. However, I have found a solution - jack nuts from Primary Fasteners

Imported from the States, where they are known as molly nuts. I phoned them today and a had a long chat with one of their engineers (not a salesman) called Norman. He was a Geordie but lived two miles from Lode Lane, and had just returned from the LR factory when the phone rang... Had a long talk about fasteners, pull-out figures, tensile strength, shear values in Newtons and all sorts. He knew his stuff all right. Upshot is - if you're fitting things like side-steps, rivnuts are the only answer. However, for lighter duty (like my ladder, where the weight is taken mainly on the door frame) the jack nuts are fine and much easier to set. According to Norman, you can set them with a machine screw and holding the jacknut steady with your fingers. I told him about the problem with the rivnuts and his reply was basically that without the right tool you will be very lucky to get them to set properly.

So I've ordered a pack of 100 (£16 + VAT) and he's throwing the setting tool in FOC. In the post tonight. When I've had a go at using them (weekend earliest) I will report back.

Thanks to everyone for advice and comments.

|| Now if thats the problem || there are few alternatives and like you say M6 seems to be the || largest common size -not sure what loading they are capable of but || at least no expensive special tool required- 45p? . Interesting site || anyway

|| || Derek

Cheers Derek. Now ordered and on their way (see elsewhere in thread).

||||| Ah I was giving and example to show the curious what the Nut ||||| looked like unless replaced.Now if thats the problem ||||| there are few alternatives and like you say M6 seems to be the ||||| largest common size -not sure what loading they are capable of but ||||| at least no expensive special tool required- 45p? . Interesting ||||| site anyway

||| I found the Prifast site on my travels, but not the jacknut. Never ||| heard of them before, but it looks like it might do the trick. ||| Looks like a rivnut, but collapses into three legs rather than an ||| expanded band. Looking at the "special tool 45p", it looks exactly ||| like what LR sent with the ladder, except it has raised pips around ||| the hole to stop the jacknut turning. This is just what I had to ||| do to my metal bar - stake a couple of sharp edges around the hole ||| with a centre punch, which prevented the rivnut turning with the ||| bolt.

|| glad it looks to be of use will you let us know how you get on I || fancy slinging a few in the toolbox I can think of a couple of times || when I've lost captive nuts that would have been the solution. || Derek

Ordered from Prifast 1pm, arrived next morning's post. Total bill came to about £20 for 100 with setting tool thrown in, so about 20p each. Had to get M5 bolts separately.

Got the ladder mounted and secure in about an hour, easy peasy. The bolts for the M5 jacknuts are only 5mm (used big washers), and the material of the nuts is much softer than the rivnuts, so it certainly won't be as strong - hence the advice not to use them for side steps etc. However, the ladder has taken my stone quite happily this afternoon, so I think they are OK in a lightly stressed application.*

They are really easy to use, and I've already mounted the fire extinguisher to the rear door with them. I think the remaining 94 will stick around in the toolbox and I will find plenty of uses for them.

Thanks for the tip, Derek, and to all who offered advice. Much appreciated.

(*Not minimising my girth, honest. The weight of the ladder and anything on it is taken on the top of the door frame, so the nuts & bolts are there more to keep it located than to bear any real load.)

On or around Sat, 20 May 2006 21:10:20 +0100, "Richard Brookman" enlightened us thusly:

sounds good. I assume they do other sizes as well...

does anyone do one with a stainless nut, that's what I want to know. I've been embarking on a campaign to replace nuts and bolts anywhere outside a vehicle with stainless, and the rivnut-style things are one place where it's tricky - if the original bolt comes out, then you can put a stainless one in, but I don't know how good stainless in a mild steel nut is. I guess at least it'll not actually rust to the nut, nor will exposed thread inside rust up and cause it to jam half-way out, which seems to be the main cause of failure.

|| On or around Sat, 20 May 2006 21:10:20 +0100, "Richard Brookman" || enlightened us thusly: || ||| ||| Ordered from Prifast 1pm, arrived next morning's post. Total bill ||| came to about £20 for 100 with setting tool thrown in, so about 20p ||| each. Had to get M5 bolts separately. ||| ||| They are really easy to use, and I've already mounted the fire ||| extinguisher to the rear door with them. I think the remaining 94 ||| will stick around in the toolbox and I will find plenty of uses for ||| them. || || sounds good. I assume they do other sizes as well... || || does anyone do one with a stainless nut, that's what I want to know. || I've been embarking on a campaign to replace nuts and bolts anywhere || outside a vehicle with stainless, and the rivnut-style things are || one place where it's tricky - if the original bolt comes out, then || you can put a stainless one in, but I don't know how good stainless || in a mild steel nut is. I guess at least it'll not actually rust to || the nut, nor will exposed thread inside rust up and cause it to jam || half-way out, which seems to be the main cause of failure. || -- || Austin Shackles.

my opinions are just that ||

0123456789112345678921234567893123456789412345678951234567896123456789712345 || 1 weebl: What's this? | in recognition of the fun that is weebl and || bob 2 bob: it a SigRuler! | check out the weebl and bob archive: || 3 weebl: How Handy! | They go up to M6 AFAICS, which is pretty big for most apps as it requires a ~10mm hole. The material seems to be pretty soft mild steel, possibly zinc passivated. Stainless can be brittle (stands ready to be corrected) I think, which would to some extent defeat the purpose of something which is intended to be deformed early in its life. You could always use a bit of copper grease on the threads if you are worried about seizing with rust.

Yep - I've used a lot of them in the past at work.

for an example

|| Austin Shackles wrote: || ||| sounds good. I assume they do other sizes as well... ||| ||| does anyone do one with a stainless nut, that's what I want to know. || || Yep - I've used a lot of them in the past at work. || ||

for an|| example || || || -- || EMB

At least I now know what I was suffering from - "spin-out".

Story of my life...

On or around Sun, 21 May 2006 09:38:27 +0100, "Richard Brookman" enlightened us thusly:

I was thinking more of the nut itself. Unless the nut and the squashy bit are one piece - most such things I've seen are 2 bits, though.