You cannot be serious man

Engine power in kilowatts, what is it, some kind of light bulb?

I've seen a few Range Rover Sports, like all the Range Rovers, a waste of bloody space, although at least the classics can be used off-road. I'll never figure out why people will buy a car that's shit at everything.

Some of us do take them offroad (not a Sport tho) ... my full fat supercharged is no stranger to mud etc, and it isn't shit at everything :s

Well, it's no use on-road and no use off it, so what's it good at? My Audi A4 is better on-road, my Defender 110 is better off-road... As you can tell I'm not a fan ;-)

LOL - I was about to post a similar comment asking what the hell a kW was! Like you said, it's not a bloody light bulb.

Matt

Did you see this month's LROI Ian? Had a comparison between every current LR model both on and off-road. Makes for interesting reading, the Defender didn't fair as well as the RR/Disco off-road in some terrain - personally I was surprised as I thought the Defender has everything else licked, despite their electronic wizardry. I haven't read the whole article to see all the reviewers final comments, but I gather the general consensus was that the Disco was considered the "best" vehicle. It certainly did well in all respects within the 'star chart' summary.

Now...if only they were 20k cheaper I might be able to buy one!

Matt

No, it's a unit of power. Relatively speaking I haven't encountered many lightbulbs whose power is measured in kilowatts. Or horsepowers for that matter. (c:

There are about 746 Watts in a Horsepower.

I'm a bit surprised that they measured the torques in foot poundses and the power in kilowatts. Mixing one's imperial units with one's metric was always considered bad form where I come from.

P38's are not shit at all, great on road & great off road too.

Kilo is a count and watts isn't metric. :-)

Martin

I had a read through in the newsagents, the only bit I spotted that the Defender didn't do so well on was a climb up some wet, flat rocks because the wheels spun, all the other vehicles had traction control but the Defender didn't, which puzzled me as I thought they did have it these days. Didn't spot anything other than that.

Having tried diff-locks out, traction control would make a huge difference and I fully accept that under some circumstances a road-biassed 4x4 with traction control would get over something that my old 300TDi couldn't get over due to my wheels spinning. I'm also pretty certain that despite the pinz being a total beast off-road there's bound to be something that my old 300TDI 110 could get over that it couldn't, it's hard to state that a given vehicle will be better under all circumstances. But overall the Defender 90 has too many advantages over the Range Rover etc for me to consider them as any good off-road, especially if the 90 has traction control too, I was fairly sure that the new Defenders came with TC, not sure why the tested one didn't. Plus of course there's things like panel damage, cost of repairs, mud damage to posh interiors, alloys etc which mean you'd have to be daft to take them off-road properly.

The rest of the article was about road manners, towing, carrying people etc, not off-roading.

Not as good as a Defender off road, and not as good as a proper road car on it though, which is why I'm not keen on such things, why get one expensive compromise when you can have two cars made for the job. Given how cruel off-roading can be, doing it in the everyday motor would be expensive as when it breaks you'd have to get it going for the commute rather than fix it at your own pace.

even if I had any space on the drive between the Rangie the Disco and the > bloody boat which is still there you would think with all that rain > somebody would want it?> Derek

I'm not a great fan of the newer Range Rovers and the "game" doesn't even play correctly, at least with my version of flash player. I'd much rather spank the monkey:

Geo

Touche! But I've yet to encounter people referring to things in megainches or microhorsepowers.

(c:

Not exactly sure - but it is available for the Defender as they mentioned it in the article - makes you wonder why they didn't get a TC'd model, but perhaps they were testing them in standard form only.

I don't disagree, and taking a new Disco/RR/RRS off-road is crazy unless you don't care (or have enough money) if it gets damaged. If I had the money I'd have a 90/110 for 'fun' only, but as a single all-rounder I'd go with a Disco. I'd certainly be more inclined to put a Defender in harms way than a P38/family Disco! but my P38 in standard form with road tyres got places an off-road baised 109 couldn't get - tho it couldn't match a tricked up 90 certainly!

Matt

It does seem a bit odd, I know that if I was going to get a new defender and off-road it, I'd get traction control, I reckon it'd be better than diff locks, probably best with an auto box. What's the bets you can only get TC and an auto box on a posh defender not the utility trim level ;-)

Yeah but I think I'd give a D3 a miss, older discos are pretty good, cheaper than a Defender and almost as capable, more so if you can get one with traction control and you get shot of all the low-hanging trim and anti-roll bars (where present). A bit heavy though, certainly compared to my 110 pickup with no trim and an empty load bed.

It's always tricky to judge a vehicle's off-road ability on single incidents like that though, I went on a Wales trip yonks ago and we came across a large rock ledge going up a hill that was tricky to get over, my mate in his super-tricked-up disco got over it with a tiny bit of a struggle, my bog-standard Defender 110 breezed over it at medium revs in 2nd low without even a *hint* of drama, a very tricked-up Vitara with massive wheels did OK on the 2nd attempt, various 110s got over either effortlessly or with a lot of messing about, a standard 90 got over it as if it wasn't there but a very tricked up 90 trialler had the biggest hassle and took many attempts.

It was all down to where the wheels were at any given moment and how much wellie the driver was giving it, those with heavy feet had the hardest time of it and kept bouncing off with the tricked-up 90 having the heaviest-footed driver of them all, plus his line was crap. I've seen lots of people struggle at things that their vehicle can do easily, just down to either bad line, heavy feet, just hitting it not quite in the right way, or being the last in a line of trucks who've made the obstacle harder. That's why I get annoyed when some joker says that his can "go places a landy won't go", a common claim.

If you look at the metal though, I reckon a 90 has a good edge, but traction control levels the field when it comes to slippery stuff.

Also from what I've seen on one occasion some time ago, my pinz will grind to a halt much more readily than a standard 90 unless I use the diff locks, having 6 wheels and double the ground clearance didn't help on that occasion, although at the time my tyres were bald and crap, not had the opportunity to try the comparison again yet. With the diff locks on though, the pinz is bloody ludicrous even on bald crap tyres ;-)

Maybe a 90 but otherwise most of the Landrover fleet shorter than a 110 are better than a 110 be it a true 110 to a defender 110 due to the length.

Lee D

Well, the shorter ones are shorter, but that's about all you can say with any certainty.. A long wheelbase isn't a death knell to off-roading capability, it knackers your ramp-over angles compared to a similar but shorter truck, but ground clearance, suspension, weight and everything else all play their part, you can't just look at the wheelbase and say "that one's better 'cos it's shorter" because it won't always be. Climbing banks is easier in a long wheelbase for example, although getting over the top once you're up there is harder ;-)

The 110's not the most capable off-roader in the land-rover range for sure, my unmodified 110 300TDi has consistently beaten two modified fat-wheeled discoveries belonging to friends which have shorter wheelbases IIRC so the 110 is still pretty good, I reckon mine was doing better than the discos because of the weight difference, especially with all the roll cage and winch stuff on them. 90s are better in almost all off-road situations than the 110 but are just too darned short for what I want. I just go laning, not trialling.

Disco commercial has long been considered the "thinking man's Defender"

Where they all fitted out the same? The last test LRO did, they had a disco on road tyres against a 90 on muds, hardly fair.....

-- To reply direct rot13 me

bURRt the 101 Camper

200TDi Disco with rotten floor 200 TDi DIsco, "the offroader" 1976 S3 Lightweight

I tried a 200TDi Disco off-road some time ago, and felt very disconnected from the terrain underneath, like being on a magic carpet floating above the ground. The pinz feels the same, you know you're going over rough ground but somehow it feels rather distant. In my

110 on the other hand I feel like I can tell exactly where each wheel is and where it's going to go, it's sort of like the difference between driving a normal car and a sports car, in one you make efficient progress, but in the other you enjoy it more and actually feel like you've got some say in the matter.

Femptofortnights?