At about 15k miles, my wife's rotors were warped, and the dealer
replaced them w/o charge, and w/o complaint. They made some vague
reference to 'problems' with rotors. Now at 40k they're warped again.
The car is under warranty still, but I can imagine them blaming the
problem on us this time. No heavy duty use of the brakes and when I'm in
the mountains I'm particularly careful about downshifting.
I've not yet shown them the car... should I expect reasonably that they
replace them again for free?
On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 20:23:17 -0700, Stephen Jacobs
We also have a 2004 RX330 (AWD).
There is a TSB to fix the issue you are experiencing. The dealer
replaced mine under warranty (per the TSB) at 26K (new rotors per TSB,
but they put the old pads on).
However, even after the TSB, I have had the rotors warp at 52K (turned
rotors), 62K (new OEM pads/rotors) and again at 74K.
When I have the tires rotated, I always have them hand-torque the lug
nuts and we very seldom drive in the mountains.
Trust me, the dealer wasn't willing to help beyond the warranty. I
hope you don't have the same long-term problem I have had, because I
will tell you, I am quite frustrated.
My wife's ES had brakes jerking so hard it was unbelievable. I
complained long and hard and they blamed her for driving through water
with hot brakes. They finaly agreed to replace the brakes and rotors
for half price. My LS 430 has jerked and had rough brakes since new
last fall. Lexus says that is normal. Glad you started this thread
cause now I will go see a brake guy and see if the rotors are warped.
Every time I go to the dealer for something on the car, I mention the
brakes and ask them to be checked. But the dealer doesn't even list it
all the time - probably afraid of lemon law suits.
Normal? No way. If that particular dealer (independently operated)
continues to give you problems talk to Toyota's customer service line
directly. Actually rotor problems started popping up a lot more since
2002. There were even TSBs telling the techs to replace them free.
Must be a new low cost supplier.
TSB's never tell the techs to replace any part for free. In the case of an
unusual or a widespread problem, TSB's merely describe the condition, the
cause, and the remedy. Whether a part will be replaced for free or not
depends on any applicable warranties or service campaigns.
Many TSBs come with modified warranty information. For these they do
say to replace for free. And warranty is often modified depending on
the nature of the problem. These are not completely independent. Yet
on other TSBs they'll say to use goodwill warranty before the work
began if the original warranty already expired.
BTW, owners should be able to ask for and be allowed to read TSBs at
the dealer. I just don't know if Toyota/Lexus/ will charge an arm and
a leg to pull it from the shelf.
On Aug 18, 11:20 pm, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom>
During the fifteen years I worked for Toyota, I never once saw a TSB include
modified warranty information.
Changes or clarifications in warranty coverage are issued in warranty
bulletins or as a SSC.
And warranty is often modified depending on
TSB's are available from the NHTSA, AllData, and at techinfo.toyota.com.
I was talking about TSBs in general. And looks like Toyota was less
inclined to bend over backwards for their customers.
In fact, even if vehicles have defects covered by the TSBs, as long as
the customer doesn't realize it and make a complaint, those won't get
fixed even under warranty. So it's not like it's going to help the
dealer tech in "routine preventative inspections."
So owners should always read the relevant TSBs affecting their
vehicles!!!!! And I don't think we should have to pay AllData for TSBs
when dealers should provide that for free, don't you? That was my
On Aug 19, 10:55 pm, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom>
A lot of people think that there is a correlation between the existence of a
TSB and warranty coverage, and there really isn't any. A TSB is issued to
assist the dealership in diagnosing a condition that a customer's vehicle
may or may not exhibit. Whether or not a condition is covered by warranty
is determined by whether the vehicle is still within the warranty coverage
Personally, I would like to have free access to TSB's because I use them to
help people in these ng's and don't care to pay for something that I am not
personally using. When I was a district service manager, I would
occasionally make copies of a TSB for a customer, but I found that 99% of
the customers did not understand the content of the TSB or mis-interpreted
the TSB, especially customers who had some automotive technical knowledge
but who were not current on their vehicle. Dealerships pay thousands of
dollars per year for access to technical information so I can understand why
they are reluctant to give it away for free to a customer who probably
wouldn't understand its content.
There is nothing preventing a manufacturer from including warranty
modifications with TSB is what I've been saying. Toyota doesn't want
the extra cost but that's fine.
An example is Honda TSB 99-085 issued 10/2001 regarding a small number
of PCV valves clogging. Honda just extended the warranty of the part
to 8yr/80K miles for those affected. It's a customer service move.
As far as reading them, I'm not talking about owners who don't
understand TSBs. There are plenty in this NG who do.
On Aug 21, 11:42 pm, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom>
Toyota/Lexus sends every customer a notice if there is any modification made
to the warranty and issues an SSC or SPA instead of a TSB. It is not a hit
or miss where only customers who think to ask get the benefit of an extended
warranty because TMS sends mail to the customers first.
How would a service department know whether or not a customer actually
understands a particular TSB? Do they make a judgment call when a customer
comes in talking like an expert when it is clear to the service department
that the customer is a big talker with no actual expertise to back up the
big talk? I ran into a lot of those kinds of customers. Should they have
the customer pass a test first or should they ask to see the customer's ASE
certifications in the area related to the TSB? How about a customer who has
let his ASE Master Tech and Toyota Master Tech certifications lapse and did
not renew his Society of Automotive Engineers membership? Do you think that
customer would understand the content of the TSB?
I don't know of an equitable answer, but in my experience dealing with over
a hundred new car dealerships, I've seen that many service department will
try to honor the reasonable requests of their regular customers who give
them steady business, while they will not try as hard for a customer who
only comes in for free work or work that the customer's regular shop is not
capable of doing.
(correct punctuation to reply)
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