I imagine a few people on the group remember the old days when most people had driven an escort at some point. The last of them were built in the Jaguar plant - okay,so they're still piecing together an ultimately flawed design, but having driven a couple of the year 2000 models, they do seem pretty robust, and certainly drive different to the various versions I've driven throughout the year.
If it's getting a little rusty and dangerous, maybe it's time to say bye-bye, but if it drives and you still need it, why bother getting rid? The diesels do seem to go on forever with regular oil changes.
4 new wheel bearings, new wishbones, steering rack and track-rod ends, um, water pump, fuel cut off solenoid, ...
still safe, but won't start. I think the glow plug realy is kaput, causing both the glow plugs and the starter solenoid not to energise. I haven't looked today but I'll get it going soon.
It is true though, the parts I've put on are worth more than the resale value of the car.
but at 50-55 mpg average, I aint complaining much. Those M-ways have a 70mph limit on them after all.
Guy King ( snipped-for-privacy@zetnet.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :
only 403 miles?
Piece of piss.
I've never _once_ got that little out of a full 85l tank on the (petrol turbo auto) XM. Even on a tank mostly wasted in stationary urban traffic. On a relaxed run, 600-650 miles easily. I've managed heading for 750 mile range on way back from Wales in convoy with a couple of 2cvs.
A diesel would get back to Edinburgh again, at illegal speeds.
I already did what? Put fuel in my car? I thought it was obvious when I said I just put some fuel in my car! If you're looking for a prefix, then yes, I topped up my car to work out how empty my fuel tank was in comparison to my fuel gauge and therefore work out my actual consumption.
Sorry. If there's something Im not sharing that you'd like to know, please ask...
I can't guess what you'd like to know, and if it were any other newsgroup, I'd get flamed for providing too much information.
But here goes.
Nissan Primera
2.0L
Automatic
1994.
Petrol.
Hatchback.
195 60 R14
Mostly Urban Town Driving
Tyres are upto 34 PSI
My Blazt Cable Hooked upto the laptop reveals no major sensor issues, I presume the injectors are working fine though...
2 Years ago, I almost got 400 miles out of a tank of petrol by strict motorway driving to and from London - I guess I could try that experiment again? Although I have previously got better fuel economy than 18 MPG around town...
The exhaust heat shields rattle around, and there's a sort of exhaust blowing reverb when travelling through a tunnel, though there are no holes.
The exhaust and cat were changed for new OEM about 2 years ago
The O2 sensor was changed two years ago
Fuel Filter was changed about 3 or 4 years ago
Air filter looks fine
Rotor and Dizzy Cap could be grotty inside - I don't know
Spark plugs looked fine six months ago - havent tested compression recently, but was fine 3 years ago.
I topped up my petrol tank other day - squeezed in 12.61 litres, but had only done 50 miles
Cam and followers are apparently "worn"
I was told that the O2 sensor was cross threaded
Car is difficult to accelerate but cruises fine
It's got colder recently and required me to have my lights on?
Oh. It's also blue metallic.
I think that about covers everything I can possibly think of. Hope I havent gone overboard?
You orig =================== Im getting really really really terrible fuel economy.
I just put some fuel in my car today as an experiment.
12.61 litres = 50 miles, ie, what's that, 18 mpg?
Thing is, I can't figure out what's wrong with it. ===================
From that, we have no idea where the figures came from. If you ran the car dry then filled up a bit at a time each day from cold until you had done 50 miles in 5 mile steps, that's one thing.
If you did what I suggested (which it turns out you did), that's another, much more accurate, thing.
Also, how much of that 50 miles was done while the engine was cold, or in traffic, as opposed to clear A roads cruising at 60mph with the engine fully warmed up? There's about a 50-100% margin for error there...
You asked the question. If you want *good* answers, ask a good question. Give some details.
Since you had already measured it the sensible "brim it, run it, brim it" way you obviously have some idea what you're doing, and why that makes a difference. So why not mention it?
Well, not quite in the V8 twin-turbo diesel Clarkson did that trip in.
37mpg rings a bell though. Tank was almost certainly bigger than 70 litres too - probably nearer 80-90 litres at a guess. Quite believeable really, but there's no way that, in the real world, you'd drive one of them as pussy-footed as he did on that trip.
-- "For want of the price of tea and a slice, the old man died."
I've got a question - why do you appear to have such an attitude problem?
All that you needed to do is confirm that yes, the tank was filled to the brim before you did those 50 miles, rather than just getting arsey with people that you're hoping will give you useful advice.
NAHAY?
The urban bit gives a bit of a clue? Have you done significantly more particularly short journeys since the weather's got bloody cold all of a sudden? That would make a *big* difference.
For similar length journeys? In similar weather? With similar amounts of traffic?
I'd be changing that - how many miles have you done since then? I'd be changing it at *least* every other basic service.
Ahh, you "squeezed in" 12.61 litres? When you last filled it to the brim (presumably at the point when those 50 miles started), did you squeeze in every last drop to a similar degree
When were you told that? That won't help.
If it's not tightened up properly, then it potentially might not be getting an accurate reading, in which case it could screw things up rather significantly.
Difficult to accelerate? So there's a fair bit less power than there should be? I'm no mechanical expert, but I'd say a fair few of the aforementioned items might just *possibly* be more than a bit connected to your s**te fuel economy, which incidentally, isn't all that s**te anyway. From a 2 litre auto petrol in town, I wouldn't expect much more than 25mpg on a good day anyway.
Well the cold bit might have an effect - I'm guessing it's injection so won't have a choke, but even so, the cold weather might make the cold start device that richens the mixture when starting the engine from cold operate for longer than when it's warmer.
Aaaaah, blue metallic. Why didn't you say so. Blue metallic cars have historically used around 20-25% more fuel in cold weather.... :-)
No, you haven't. Funnily enough, relevant information often helps people diagnose a problem, rather than just relying on telepathy.
There's a company called Antonov that claims to have a semi-auto box that's MORE efficient than a manual. I think they did a deal with Honda but not heard much since. It is pretty weird that we are still using a clutch pedal after all these years!
Sorry. I didn't realise this was such a pedantic newsgroup. It doesn't seem good enough for me to just say "I got 50 miles out of 12.61 litres" you want to know how I filled it up, how much I had in previously, where I bought my petrol from, what type it is, which pump I use, was it the same pump, was my car slanted in one direction or the other...
I realise it matters, but seriously, statement of fact - 50 miles =
12.61 litres. Do I really have to qualify each statement so thorighly?
Well please forgive me if I come across wrong. Im a computer programmer by trade, but I like to do a bit of tinkering on my car for maintenance
- just don't expect me to go start stripping the head off the engine to have a look at my cams and timing chain... I don't have inexhaustable pockets either... I really need to rule out the most likely things.
That's why I came here. I just wanted opinions on what might be wrong, what I might be able to look at.
NAHAYHAY????
Sure. It gives me a clue. It tells me that I get less out of Urban driving than out of Motorway driving. Sure it's cold, but the economy has never been as bad as this. I'd never ask the question unless I thought there was a problem.
Dipping to 18 MPG was the final straw for me...
Yeah. I've had my car for 5 years, or more, and been doing the same journeys backwards and forwards for 3 years+...
There's some that would say that fuel filters won't affect the fuel economy.
This is the degree of pedanticism that I don't enjoy. I did fill it up to the same degree.... I always do.
Couple of years ago, or more. After the oil rails got blocked for a bit. Might have been worn before then. Was given some lame excuse about how they needed changing and wouldn't last the year or something... I don't trust garages though.... like the one who tried to fail the front bushings on the suspension for excess play, even though there's a special notice...
According to the onboard diagnostics, and even my Blazt/Consult cable, the O2 sensor is switching fine.
That's the thing... Im not sure. The engine revs increase, the engine sounds noisy, but it's almost like its not transferring the power to the wheels... Maybe it's an autobox problem.
I had my car in 1st gear today by accident, and red lined it by accident... but it seemed fine.
Point taken, but I know I've achieved better than what I have done under similar circumstances in the past. I believe if the performace had been graphed, it would show a steady downward trend.
I'd personally like to rule out the O2 sensor... I suppose it could be something to do with the exhaust itself, which would probably mean I'd have to get a new O2 sensor in that eventuality... I've heard of problems with the throttle body...
I don't know whether these worn cams would have an effect... or whether my rough timing is anything to go by, or whether I do have a problem with compression, or whether the whole thing can be sorted with a basic service or new cap/rotor/fuel/air filters etc....
Im just hoping it's nothing major... which is why I ask... opinions?
Oh yes. As a computer programmer, I thorighly understand that. Garbage In, Garbage Out. If I don't give the right information, you can't help.
But then, Im not telepathic either. If I don't get a specification, or, you don't tell me what it is you need to know, I can't provide it... all I can do is rattle of a list of possibly non consequential data.
Im a big fan of specific targetted information. It makes our jobs so much simpler and easier.
So the answer isn't good enough on it's own as a statement of fact, it has to be qualified too?
And Im far from being touchy. I qualified my answer as you asked, then you asked me to tell you what I already knew. So I did.
And I asked if there's anything more you'd like to know, then please ask, unfortunately, Im not a mind reader, and Im not an expert in fuel economy, which, is why I asked here?
Is that not good enough either?
(I did it before you suggested because Im not a dullard as you expected)
My journey takes about 45 minutes. It's 9 miles. Car takes about 5 minutes to warm up to full temperature. There's probably a mile at 60 mph limit at the end of my journey - though it varies between 5 and
60... depends if Im stuck behind a hearse, JCB, little old lady, school run mom etc....
I got some CSV's around showing all the sensor readings on my car for a typical journey if you'd like to view at all?
Likewise. I don't know what you need to know in order to give me advice! So I asked, what would you like to know?
My bro actually reckons it's quicker changing gears in a manual than it is an automatic. I don't quite understand that concept, since, there's never any clutch depress in the auto, it just shifts smoothly from one gear to the next. (Well my Jatco does)
Cya Sim> There's a company called Antonov that claims to have a semi-auto box
As has been said, the circumstances under which you measured it are important. You knew what they were and even why they were important, but you didn't think they would matter to the people you were expecting to give you suggestions?
You are either immensely tactless, or being disingenuous with that statement. From your other posts and techie bent I suspect the former.
I'm a very techie computer person too. But I deal with real people and real social situations all the time, successfully. You have to see things from the other persons point of view.
See above.
I expected nothing, I asked for more info and suggested an accurate way to measure it. The fact that you had already done it but chose not to mention it says more about the way you framed the question than the way I answered it.
45 minutes for 9 miles? So that's stop-start heavy traffic all the way then? Was the economy better before even thogh all other conditions were the same?
Do they show anything unusual?
But you *do* know, at least some of it. You obviously do have some idea of how to approach a problem, things to try, experimental technique, that sort of thing.
But you decided not to mention a lot of stuff which was important enough for you to try, even though you must have known it would help in suggesting an answer or rule out things you already know are not the problem?
What's wrong with my TV? I've tried a lot of things, but I won't bother mentioning them, just tell me the answer. If you suggest something I've already tried I'll list a lot of inconsequential things and get shirty.
Can I just ask, cos I may be being thick, but what flaming difference does it make how I fill up my car?
I know about how to check your economy by using the same pump, to the same specifications each time and working how far you can travel on the number of litres you put in the second time... I understand the importance of that.
But in the grand scheme of things, once all the calculations are done, it doesn't actually make any difference to you?
I give you a figure, it could be right or wrong. I happen to know it's right, and I've tested it correctly. But that doesn't actually matter to you? I don't understand how knowing HOW I filled my car up, can actually answer my question? I don't understand how not knowing that, will stop you from answering either?
Come to think of it, I don't know how knowing the MPG will answer my question, but it gives me a starting point to work from and to get away from!
It's like someone asking for a specific printer cartridge, then a muppet in PC World asking "What printer is it for?". Does it matter? Im asking for a specific model cartridge. Can you provide what I want or not? Who cares what printer its for. I want to stick it up my ass for all the PC World guy knows and that's the only cartridge that's small enough. I refuse to provide irrelevent information and fluff.
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