Help engine rattle

months old Fiat

problem.

leads to the cause

would have to

chain gone

If it were the timing chain, chances are that it would rattle all the time. Why are you not satisfied to accept that it's caused by the tappets ? IMO you are worrying too much about it. If you described the symptoms accurately. I would be 99% that they were the cause, but you appear to be unhappy with that diagnosis. Mike..

It can't be rattling, it's a Fiat, these things just don't rattle, rust, fall apart, or break down.

My Cinquecento had this little bit of "character" (there, that's another dig at somebody, heh) - it turned out to be a loose heat shield on the cat. I was kinda _convinced_ that it was the engine, though, however after an exhaust fitter clamped it on, it was quiet thereafter. It only did it when the engine speed was something like 450 rpm or whatever, so it was when it was literally cranking up or shutting down.

It may be a belt of some description, though. Do you have air conditioning? Try starting with it on or off (depending how it is now). You could also try starting the car with the lights on (not something I'd recommend you make a habit of, I guess) to see if there's any difference.

If it *has* got a chain rather than a belt, some noise from them is common at startup, as the tensioning device usually works by oil pressure. And it's absolutely nothing to worry about if it goes away quickly. Otherwise, most BMW owners would be very worried...

conditioning?

It just does it first thing in the morning and for a split second.

Out of curiosity, how did you find your "cinquecento"? Was it all right or did you have problems with it?

But what mileage have this cars done? Were they six months from new?

Both, as it were. "Melissa," for that was her name, was a good car but marred by a few problems.

I could prattle on about it here but you'll find lots of information about it on my website, in the "previous cars" section.

They have a timing belt....not a chain.

Sounds like the hydraulic lifters are taking a bit of time to get back up to pressure.

Nothing to worry about so long as it goes away in under a minute.

even in a brand new car?

No - the lifters work on hydraulic pressure. When you turn off the engine, they lose pressure and it takes a while for it to build up again.

If you're really paranoid, you could try a thinner oil in this weather - but you'd only have to change it back again once the weather warms up.

Happens to all cars with hydraulic lifters - you should hear my Alfa in the mornings ;-)

How old is your alfa?

A noise first start of the morning from either hydraulic tappets or a timing chain which goes away quickly is common on nearly every car so equipped. Modern oils are very much thinner than older ones and seem to allow this sort of thing more readily. And it's nothing to worry about - if this *really* is the noise you're getting.

Which engine is this? AFAIK all the Fiat punto petrol units use a belt, not a chain. If this is the case, what oil is in the engine, and what oil filter?? It sounds like you have excess oil drain back so the hydraulic tappets are being starved of oil for the first few seconds of cold start. Cheap pattern filters with poor or not existant anti-drain valves cause exactly this problem on other cars....

Anyways, its still under warranty being 6 months old isnt it? If so take it back to the dealer and insist on leaving it there overnight so they may listen to the noise. If they say its fine, then make them write out a declaration saying its fine, and if it does go pop they will fix it FOC.

Tim..

Could it possibly be the heat stove around the exhaust manifold. My Volvo one used to rattle at low revs when cold. ie for a few seconds when starting.

Stuart

Old. Almost as old as some of my employees ;-)

14 years old next year.

It's the hydraulic camchain tensionner. Takes a while to take up the slack.

Rover

Galant.

else.

from new?

My SD1 has done about 90k. the GT4 65k, and the Galant about

112k They may have done it from new. It wouldn't surprise me. But you're missing the point. Mileage has little to do with it, as wear is not the primary cause. Admittedly a worn engine is more likely to suffer from it than one that's relatively new, but on it's own it doesn't indicate anything that needs fixing. With my own cars, because I know what causes it, it doesn't worry me in the slightest. The engines run well. A little tappet noise when started after standing overnight is perfectly normal and acceptable AFAIC. Incidently, my GT4 doesn't have hydraulic tappets. It has buckets and shims, but it still does it. Maybe caused by a little wear of the buckets, and/or shims, and the valve gear being a little dry after standing. It disappears as soon as the oil pump gives it some oil. Same as on your Punto. Mike.

I would not expect to hear any lifter noise / rattle from any well maintaned engine of under 100k miles apart from the very short time the oil pressure light is on after the motor has started from cold- which should be less than

1 second to go out.

Obvious exceptions to this would be the Ford CVH and Vx family 2 motors which are known to be abit rattly due to cam wear and the hyd tappets having a large gap to take up.

Tim..

I've got a brand new cam, lifters and oil pump on my SD1, and with synthetic, it rattles for some time when started after not being used for a couple of days. It was nothing like as bad on 10/40 dino with the old

140,000 odd mile bits.

Petrol engine, and you are right it has a belt not a chain as first said. The noise basically lasts the time it takes to turn the key in the ignition.

1 second. I will follow your advice and take it to the dealer and get them to sign something if they say it's nothing to worry about

Your description sounds like hydraulic tappet noise, and as others have stated it's noisy until the oil pressure builds up to take up the slack as it were. However, my '94 Nissan Primera used to do this if cheap oil was used or good oil was left in too long, and putting decent semi-synthetic oil in stopped the noise completely until the oil was due for a change when it would start up again. It was quite a useful reminder to change the oil in fact.