Penalty for three second stop

I guess this is a decriminalised notice. I would suggest a cross to the pepipoo "parking and decriminalised notices" forum. They mainly deal with parking (with a good sucess rate), and are good at spotting any technical flaws in such notices (including those for box junctions)- post copies of all correspondence (even if it seems standard/irrelevent) having first removed any identifying numbers/details for best advice.

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In which case there is just 'not having due consideration'.

Can happen.

But if the two photos show the car in the same position, it can only have crept slowly forward then crept slowly back in reverse.

Mike Ross posted

Yes. And me.

The other common scenario is where you move into the yellow box to turn right, and then your exit is blocked - typically by cars coming from the other direction turning left and joining a queue.

In message , Big Les Wade writes

Presumably the camera system simply flags up the fact that a vehicle has been stationary in the box for more than the 'permitted' length of time, and doesn't look for the presence (or absence) of a blockage in the exit. If that is so, it seems that the system is not fully checking that the law has been broken.

Ian Jackson gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Sorry, I'm not quite sure I understand.

What relevance has the presence or absence of a blockage at the exit to the box junction got to whether an offence is being committed by the person blocking the box?

the offence is not actually stopping in the box, it is 'entering when your exit is not clear' (practical nutshell) so it is feasible to stop in the box and not break the law, I'll bet it would be aggro to get that across in court for yourself though. I am very tempted to get one of those cameras that record your whole journey all the time.

In message , Adrian writes

It appears that the law is that you must not enter the box unless your exit is clear. If, initially, the exit is clear, but, after entering the box, someone blocks the exit, you have not committed an offence if you have to stop (going by what has been posted in this thread). If, when you enter the box, the camera doesn't monitor the situation of the exit, the 'system' cannot know whether you are committed an offence.

This scenario is quite feasable (but not necessarily the case under discussion....) you are driving a 60foot long bendybus onto such a junction, therefore you MUST wait until 60 feet of lane is clear in front of you, even though your light is green... meanwhile, every TD&H in the lane on your right, seeing their lane is "busy" but a nice clear lane starting to for, changes lane and "steals" the clear 60 footlong lane being created by the waiting bus. How long do you expect the bus driver to wait? One complete set of changes of lights? Two? Ten? Especially if the space requiredf is filled (legitimately) by vehicles coming from the left and turning right in front of the bus (to go the same way as it), during red for the bus, green for traffic from the left. Been there, done it, got a wardrobe full of tshirts. Never got a ticket for "entering a hatch junction etc" yet, even though I have had to do it in order to make ANY progress at all, AND that was agreed by copper who was riding shotgun on the bus, standing next to me, ready to get off at the next stop.

Quite.

LOL! Good point well made.

Zathras gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Some of them don't even understand the difference between Mean, Mode and Median as ways to calculate "Averages".

In that case, you could plead that you were following the lawful instructions of a police officer. That, or insanity - I seem to recall one of the tests is whether you would have comitted the crime "with a policeman at your elbow".

It depends on the resolution of the photo... a small forward movement may not be apparent in a low-res photo.

Mike

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That is not the law, even if the HC says that. You may legally enter even when your exit is not clear.

snip..

as I understand it.. stopping ON a box junction is an offence, as is, entering without a clear exit.. the main idea of a box junction is to allow traffic to flow freely in all directions.. stopping ON a box junction blocks others entering.. and stops it doing its job.. hence the offence.. (which used to be an automatic "obstructing the highway" if seen by a police officer).. so its not really changed with the camera's only more people are caught now.

therefore. technically the OP's son committed two offences.. and is lucky they have only been charged with the one a camera can prove..

LL

You clearly don't understand it then.

DAS

It is an offense to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop due to the presence of stationary vehicles, with the well known exception for turning right.

From the Highway Code:

Box junctions. These have criss-cross yellow lines painted on the road (see 'Road markings'). You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.

Which is referring to this law:

The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 (No. 3113) SCHEDULE 19 BUS STOP AND BUS STAND CLEARWAYS AND BOX JUNCTIONS PART II SIGNIFICANCE OF BOX JUNCTION MARKINGS

Prohibition conveyed by markings in diagram 1043 or 1044

1. ? (1) Except when placed in the circumstances described in paragraph 8, the road markings shown in diagrams 1043 and 1044 shall each convey the prohibition that no person shall cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.

(2) The prohibition in sub-paragraph (1) does not apply to any person? (a) who causes a vehicle to enter the box junction (other than a box junction at a roundabout) for the purpose of turning right; and (b) stops it within the box junction for so long as it is prevented from completing the right turn by oncoming vehicles or other vehicles which are stationary whilst waiting to complete a right turn.

Because each car in the queue waiting at the lights would have to wait for the car ahead to completely clear the junction before entering it.