Re: Ever thought about a second hand Tesla?

I see a few Teslas on my daily journey. Yes they are for people who want to make a statement somehow. Sure they must be nice to drive, and you would expect easy maintenance. But some complaints (youtube) about build quality of the body panels. A dent can be horrendously expensive to fix. I also wonder if you can live with battery degradation of about 10% per year. I'm driving a 23 year old petrol car which performs like new. Let me see... (0.9)^23 = 0.088629, or would be about 9% battery left :). So we're not quite there yet with the technology.

yet electric cars have been around since before petrol cars went mainstream.

True, but Li-ion batteries deteriorate over long term usage. The internal resistance goes up with time, hence the batteries gets hotter and less current can safely be taken out.

is full of people having issues and DIYing their out-of-warranty Teslas - with not much help from Tesla Motors.

Theo

Don't all batteries deteriorate with use?

If it's my 12V car battery, then I buy a new one in 5 years, cost £100. It it's a Tesla motor battery, costs???

There are liky to be many charge cycles, recomended load range is 20-80% to keep the battery health(ier).

My view is that curent Li-ion batteries are really not up to it. I hope that more durable types will come. E.g. solid with state electrolyte. There are also Li-air batteries being ivestigated; high energy density, high durability, but let down by low charge efficiency; this defeats the reason for using electricity inthe first place.But who knows, certainly, battery research is of major interest. Something will come along.

exactly what they said over a hundred years ago.

Are you over hundred years old? :)

I read, and am fascinated by the lack of progress of the automobile, particularly with regard to power sources.

Porsche knocked out the first hybrid in 1902

Pre 1900 electric vehicles held the land speed record

Yet it has taken over a hundred years and we are so little advanced.

Much like commercially viable fusion power to provide the cheap electricity for the cars. Though it's easy to remember that's only 30 years away: the researchers have been telling us for decades :)

The Holy Grail being of course a suitable battery. Light small long lived and cheap. Perhaps one day. Everything else is easier.

Tesla are actually pretty good at battery longevity, as far as the data I've seen go. The active cooling system makes a big difference.

They may be lithium-ion, but the management is very different from the battery in your phone. It is therefore not appropriate to draw parallels from 'consumer' lithium ion experiences.

(though the chemistry will still get you eventually. And early data on battery lifetimes only tells us about the design of the management system it was fitted with - they have also evolved considerably in the intervening time)

Theo

Altough the a few now enjoy the credentials plus generous government grants, it's difficult to see how a wholesale change to EV is viable. Certaily the generouns handouts will be reversed. The charging infrastructure, the lithium raw material are other factors. What about lorries and busses, taxis which tend to run all day? And some countries are better suited if they have geothermal energy E.g. New Zealand. Various political cut off dates have been mentioned, it's entirely confusing: 2022, 2024, 2035, 2040. Seems that this may be intentional.

It is surely easier to provide a sophisticated charger for something like a mobile phone than car? Regardless of Tesla hype?

All batteries deteriorate with use. If they didn't, Tesla would give theirs a lifetime warranty. Ie, for ever. That is the true measure of how long something lasts - not hype.

Many commercial vehicles like town buses and delivery trucks can run their working day on one tank of fuel. So you'd need a battery with that sort of capacity. There are very few vehicles that really do need refuelling quickly on a regular basis.

Best to ignore government predictions for cut off dates. They know no more than you or me. Frequently less. ;-)

In the 80's there were quite a few electric CF bedfords running around in the stratford, London area, run by whatever the local electric supply company was. (Just some useless info)

Harrods in London had ancient electric vans up until not that long ago. And of course milk floats seemed to work OK. Most people could probably get away with an electric car for their daily commute, etc. Charged every night. But everyone seems to must have a range they only use once in a while.

snip

Even if I wanted one, living in a terraced house makes charging pretty much impossible. And I'd estimate (difficult to get a statistic but looks life over half) this applies to most UK households.

I'd mind less, but we've just had the pavements dug up and new LED street lights installed as part of a PFI scheme. An opportunity lost?

[snip]

In summary,

1. We may be past "peak oil" so any oil-based fuel will become increasingly expensive.
2. Burning an oil-based fuel generates carbon dioxide with serious implcations for climate change
3. Also burning an oil-based fuel generates nitrogen dioxide and other pollutants, giving problems with air quality in cities.
4. Electric vehicles with storage batteries have to get their electricity from somewhere. The fact that they have storage batteries makes the use of renewable sources possible; but perhaps with significant infrastructure problems. Otherwise most electricity sources generate carbon dioxide. Even nuclear sources are probably not carbon-neutral when you include construction, use, and decommissioning. See:

So the 100-year old limitations in battery technology are not the only problems.

So perhaps the only long-term solution is to avoid travel; or at least to reduce the need for travel.