Steering alignment

shazzbat ( snipped-for-privacy@spamlessness.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Yes, I know it's "not normal" in SO many ways, but...

I seem to recall seeing som,ething similar on a Jeep I had the misfortune to do some work on.

But that was a hateful chunk of Yank crap.

That doesn't make sense! When you corner the wheels will try to 'pivot' on their contact with the road (assuming there is grip). The only thing which stops then from doing this is the lower suspension arm and upper arm/McPherson strut - neither of which affect the tracking directly as they aren't usually adjustable. The only significance is that the forces involved would wear the balljoint(s) and bushes on the suspension arm(s)/McPherson strut.

Like I said, unless something gets bent or there is noticeable wear in the bushes/balljoints, there should be no reason for the tracking to change until somebody takes a spanner to the trackrod ends and physically screws them along the rod!

Darren

P.S.

Personally I think it's a con peddled by some incompetent 'mechanics' who don't understand simple physics, which is why I wouldn't let them do the work on my car...

It would wouldn't it? So unsurprisingly it turns out to be used on a 2cv. So that's representative then.

LMAO

Steve

shazzbat ( snipped-for-privacy@spamlessness.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Yes, yes, whatever, nothing I've not heard before...

Seriously - and this is the third time I've asked it without an answer - if it's normally down to threading, *what gives*?

We've all done it, clonked a wheel against a kerb and knocked the tracking. Something's moving. What's moving? Things aren't bending.

If the adjusters are threaded, they're not going to suddenly fly round a few times and move on the threads - so they must be jumping on the threads?

That - to me - sounds like not exactly a great piece of design...

Do that a few times, and the threads'll be thoroughly munged and you're looking at replacement of the TRE/adjuster/rod, right?

Surely you want to be designing in a weak point that won't get damaged in normal use, just adjustment.

shazzbat ( snipped-for-privacy@spamlessness.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Right. So instead of an adjustment, you've got a part replacement - and the rack end of the track rod isn't always easy to get to - PLUS the adjustment.

Whoop-de-doo.

Your closed mind, your loss.

Don't be sceptical. They do. trust me. Recovery is what I do.

You can usually only change a track rod by itself if the vehicle has a steering box type arrangement.On most cars you change the rack complete with track rods. We live in a throwaway society remember.

They don't get damaged in normal use. They get damaged by impacts hard enough to be (arguably) considered RTAs.. They don't get damaged by any parking that might be considered normal.

That was a joke.

Features which are a good idea become the norm. That's why we have a wheel at each corner rather than silly three wheelers, indicators instead of sticking your hand out of the window etc. Of course one should never say never, but I don't think many features introduced on the 2cv have become the norm.

Steve

shazzbat ( snipped-for-privacy@spamlessness.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

So you're seriously trying to tell me that nobody will ever, ever, ever need to have the tracking checked/adjusted - and if they do, it's pretty damn pointless unless they replace the rack. Right.

Recovery after people have stuffed it - to a level where they kinda notice it's taken a slight knock.

Not after they've knocked a wheel parking and not noticed until they wonder why they've chewed a set of front tyres, or the steering wheel's slightly on the wonk all of a sudden?

Oh, great. F*ck up parking, new rack. Woo-hoo.

True, unfortunately. Small lightweight economical spacious cars with suspension that actually smooths out crap road surfaces aren't very fashionable these days. Hiho.

Some things that were "firsts" on the 2cv certainly have come into fairly standard use, though - there's things like internal headlight height adjustment, but there's also subtle little details like standard-fit radial tyres...

Under normal conditions the tracking should not need adjustment *unless*:

a) certain parts of the suspension or steering systems have been replaced. This is the most common cause as balljoints and bushes wear out and are an MOT failure (as are steering racks if there is any play in them - power steering racks need the engine running though before checking this!). If only rubber bushes or the upper/lower suspension arm balljoints are replaced the tracking will probably be near to spec, but this is unlikely if the trackrod ends or rack are replaced. In any case, for the time and cost of having it done I would suggest checking whenever work has been carried out on the steering/suspension.

b) there is reason to believe it is currently set wrong (e.g. excessive tyre wear or handling problems), either by bodged work on the suspension/steering systems or severe impact damage.

c) the suspension setup has been changed (e.g. lowering) - more relevant to McPherson strut systems as the camber angle changes with ride height. This is one of the advantage of double-wishbone suspension (constant camber angle)

In the case of your 2CV, or any other car which relies on clamped trackrod ends, it would be prudent to check the tracking regularly and as you say, a knock to the front wheel(s) could easily throw it out. However, for many cars (certainly all the Fords and Rovers I've seen), adjusting the tracking is not a routine operation. Of course, if there is play in the bushes/balljoints or rack then adjusting the tracking is pointless until they are sorted!

Darren

The most likely part to get damaged, by a heavy inpact with a kerb etc, apart from the wheel that is, is the track arm. Not the track rod, or stub axle. Impacts like those are taken by the track rod axially. IOW it's either pulled or pushed. The force required to bend a rod, maybe 16mm in diameter by simple pressure along it's axis, is far greater than the force required to bend the track arm, which is at an angle to it. Bending that by as little as half a degree, will throw the tracking out by the same amount. That's likely to be over 1mm at the wheel rim. Apart from replacing the track arm, it can be corrected by adjusting the track rods with little effect to the overall steering geometry, but unadjusted it is quite likely to affect tyre wear. Mike.

The message from "Darren Jarvis" contains these words:

That's only true if the ends of the wishbones are directly above each other. If they're set back then changing the ride height will still affect the camber.