Suzuki vitara jx

Is anyone familiar with the Suzuki Vitara Jx, with a 1.6 8 valve engine? It's a 2000 model with a carburetor. it's been in the family
for over 10 years and been faultless till now apart from normal servicing and a new radiator. Only 65k miles on the clock.
I had to be towed home today as it spluttered to a halt with all the symptoms of low fuel. It would kick occasionally on the starter. AA man managed to get it ticking over by squirting petrol in the intake but engine died immediately the throttle opened.
Once home I found the electric pump by the tank was running and getting pressure to the carb, the return to tank was not flowing but as soon as the engine started it flowed quite forcefully and filled about 2 litres in less than a minute. As soon as the engine stops and the ignition back on no flow in the return so I suspect a solenoid in the carb stops flow unless the engine is running but wonder how it is sensed.
Anyway after purging the carb it seems to run fine but need to understand a bit more about the electrics associated with the carb.
It has an OBD port and I can plug my VAG tester in but it doesn't communicate.
Also while I'm here does anyone know if a tow bar from a Grand Vitara with fit this?
AJH
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On 27/03/2018 22:53, snipped-for-privacy@loampitsfarm.co.uk wrote:

I remember something similar with a friend's Rover 214 long ago. I think that there was a relay that was operated by the oil pressure switch. Ignition on and the pump ran slowly to ensure the carb had fuel. Engine started and oil pressure established and the relay switched the pump to high speed. We only found out about that when the auxiliary belt delaminated at high revs during an overtake and a piece flew off and hit the relay. The relay broke, the fuel pump slowed and the engine wouldn't run above idle.
SteveW
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Was this a carb car, rather than injection? Usual way with those is the pump runs with the starter, then the oil pressure switched feed takes over when pressure establishes. It's a safety measure to prevent fuel spillage in a crash - rather than to protect the engine, although it may do that too.
--
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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On 28/03/2018 00:13, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Yes. As the OP mentioned that the Vitara was a carbed version, it reminded me of the problem with the carbed Rover. It was definitely not a case of the just running the pump with the starter though, it was a two speed operation. Enough to fill the float chamber and to start and idle just from turning the ignition on and full speed for driving once the oil pressure rose. I assume that there was an impact switch for the safety function, like on injected versions.
SteveW
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On 28-Mar-18 7:27 AM, Steve Walker wrote:

How the hell does a 2000 model with a carb pass MOT emissions test?
Rover introduced single point throttle body injection on the Mini in 1991. SU stopped making HIF44E (E electronic cold/idle/cutoff control) in 1994. Couldn't meet UK emission regs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_G_engine#G16B
Wiki says G16A with 8V and carb was used on 1st gen Vitara from 1994 to 2001. But none of those should have been imported by Suzuki to the UK after 1994. Is it a low volume SVA or "model report" (less than 50) import? Do you have "relaxed" CO/HC limits on SVA document or a letter from Suzuki stating it was made to 3rd world emission spec and can't pass UK emissions? I'd have lots of fun shoving that in front of the MOT tester every year.
The 8V carb G16A should have ceased UK import in 1994 replaced by G16B. 16 valve engines are SOHC with long "bell crank" rockers for one set of valves.
http://www.fixkick.com/t-belt/LASH/16v_SOHC_valves-m1.jpg
Carbs can't pass the "full range" emissions test that 3 way (CO/HC/NOx) cats required for introduction from 1995. Before that, from 1992 2 way (CO/HC) cats could be used which didn't need "full range" advanced lambda control as they didn't burn up on open loop rich acceleration and high load mixtures. Because it doesn't have advanced lambda control any car first used between Aug 1992 and Aug 1995 not listed in the VOSA emission data has a none CAT test. If it's listed it has a cat test and has to meet the CO/HC limits in the VOSA emissions data. Any car first used after Aug 1995 (Aug '97 for "large" passenger, more than 5 seats + driver) has a cat test and either has to pass default limits or meet limits listed in the VOSA emission data. Suzuki are not in the VOSA emission data so have to meet the default test limits. All cars first used after 1992 get a BET test first.
Default limits for cars first used after Aug 1995 and before 2002. Fast idle, CO <= 0.3%, HC <= 200 parts per million (ppm), and the lambda value between 0.97 and 1.03. At natural idle, CO <= 0.5%. The initial BET test has tighter limits of high idle 0.2% CO and natural idle 0.3%, these apply as default limits to all cars after Aug 2002.
None CAT test is 3.5% CO, 1200ppm HC at natural idle.
http://www.mr2oc.co.uk/ku2/emissions/m4s07000309_1.gif
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On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 11:47:20 +0100, Peter Hill
Interesting stuff Peter and I don't know, it was bought secondhand by my daughter and I use it when taking the dog out or collecting logs.
I'll ask her for a gander of the V% when she gets home after the weekend.
AJH
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On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 12:00:24 +0100, snipped-for-privacy@loampitsfarm.co.uk wrote:

I meant V5
On MOT slip it gave 0.084 CO, 11ppm HC and 1.004 lambda
AJH
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Interesting. Trying to think why you'd need to vary the pump speed just to fill a carb float chamber.
On the model I know best, the carb versions had the pump controlled by oil pressure. So it would stop with the engine in event of a severe impact. Later injection versions had an impact sensor to cut off the pump - which wasn't controlled by the oil pressure. But even more recent injection stops the pump if the ECU doesn't receive a tach signal from the engine.
--
*Never miss a good chance to shut up.*

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 23:06:06 +0100, Steve Walker

Similar on the LR 101 I had but the recirculating pumps didn't run at all until the oil pressure was up, Not a problem until it was left long enough for the float bowls to empty by evaporation, then needed churning over for a long while before it would fire up.
My LR with lpg sensed the spark coil currents in some way before it switched the gas on but gave an initial burst on switching the ignition.
Anyway no nearer to solving my problem, it started fine this morning but until I have someone else home I'm not risking going out in it as I don't want to be rescued by AA again and can't put up with the wait anyway nor do I know their policy on repeat breakdowns with the same problem.
AJH
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Are you certain it wasn't meant to run when cranking? Not sure why you'd want to cane the battery by churning it over to get oil pressure before the pump came on.
--
*Caution: I drive like you do.

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 13:55:47 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"

On reflection there was a feed from the starter motor solenoid
AJH
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On 27/03/2018 22:53, snipped-for-privacy@loampitsfarm.co.uk wrote:

It should have a single point injection system, many people mistake those for a carburettor.
The flow you got is miles away from what you would get from a carb pump.
The pump should only run for a couple of seconds and run again when the engine turns over.
To establish what fault you have, one way is to add a jumper cable to the pump feed, so that if it happens again, you can power the pump directly, that would bypass any ecu involvement, wiring faults, relay faults etc. If the pump won't run when directly powered, then you have a pump or pump earth fault.
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Yup. High pressure injection fuel rails are different from a low pressure one to feed a carb.
--
*Failure is not an option. It's bundled with your software.

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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I'd also think vary speed pumps were rather later than single point injection. Would have expected that to have a fuel return line and vacuum referenced pressure regulator.
--
*Why are a wise man and a wise guy opposites?

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 12:57:14 +0100, MrCheerful

Good point and you're probably right as it doesn't seem to have a float bowl.
If I find the engine number is there a way of checking?
I found the service record and it was supplied new by a suzuki dealer in derby in September 1999
Have you any idea what protocol the OBD port uses?
AJH
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On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 15:20:36 +0100, snipped-for-privacy@loampitsfarm.co.uk wrote:

Engine is a G16AS so 16valve injected I now think. Still need to find the problem.
AJH
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On 28/03/2018 15:37, snipped-for-privacy@loampitsfarm.co.uk wrote:

G16A is the 8valve version I believe. G16B is definitely 16v
If it has an obd port then it supports EOBD (standard)
if it has a rectangular port then it is rather different and flashes the management light after bridging terminals and installing a fuse.
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On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 16:35:31 +0100, MrCheerful

Well now I'm not sure and will have to ask a Suzuki dealer but it may well be 8V. Trouble is we've had it so long I can't remember why I thought it was a carbureted 8V.

Yes the normal OBD port as on my ford and the Audi but it doesn't communicate with my VAG Autel
I've got an Elm OBD2 to usb but only ford software
AJH
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On 28/03/2018 23:27, snipped-for-privacy@loampitsfarm.co.uk wrote:

there are various laptop obd programmes, obd auto doctor is pretty good. But your fault sounds hardware rather than software.
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On 28-Mar-18 4:35 PM, MrCheerful wrote:

     G16A also came in 16V versions. With the late date and UK Suzuki dealer I'd be surprised if it was 8V.
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