VW "lifelong servicing"?

The message from Paul Hutchings contains these words:

Dunno - but it reckons "Please note that if the engine is topped up with more than ½ litre of non-longlife oil between services, the service indicator will come on earlier and the time or distance between services will be reduced."

Must have some sort of sensor.

They have been on this "variable servicing" in Germany for quite a few years and most people seem to be getting on average 18000 miles between services. My polo has covered 10 000 miles and still records another 22000 miles or around 400 days before the next service (TDI engine). My brother who is in the trade says the 22000 miles with drop quicker as the oil condition worsens so I hope i can get 18000 miles out of it before a service. Heck

Yep, I'd guess that would be right. Same principle as with "miles remaining" on my fuel computer. If I'm driving into London on the M4 doing

I think that was Huw, whose mate's Allroad 2.5TDI had done nearly 200k and still running like new.

Certainly makes me worry less about my 5-cylinder A6 that hasn't had an oil change in 8000 miles (forget exactly what brand of oil I used, but it had the appropriate VW spec numbers on it).

Peter

My opinion as a NON-vw driver but former owner of several. 8000 miles doesn't sound like anything to be concerned with by the way, whats the usual interval? Variable servicing sounds like a sales ploy to me, veinly disguised as a benefit to the customer. Long term though, getting lax about servicing could hit you right in the pocket. While in actuality quality of driving might make some effect as to how long the oil lasts, do you really want to risk long term damage of your engine on the whim of a sensor that *could* be miscalibrated like any other electrical sensor has a potential for faults (although i guess you'd pick this up). Extending oils service life (which this seems to be aimed to do more than lessening it) can't always be a GOOD thing ? Any trade professionals care to comment. How many people really extend the life of their oil, as opposed to degredate it with their driving patterns I wonder? My skoda fab only tends to generally be run on good motorway runs, not driven hard if I can help it but I do the odd *only a mile or two* to work when its raining - which I try and avoid.

I like the idea of solidly knowing when you have to take your car in to be serviced right on cue, makes me feel like I prioritise the servicing of my vehicle well. This scheme maybe useful for haggling down second hand prices later on though on vehcile with large gaps in servicing intervals (though frankly, I don't think I'd want a vehicle that has had its sevicing skimped in early driving history, thanks).

But you'd only tell if you actually kept the car for more than 2 months :-)

(is the Audi the car you've owned the longest yet?)

cheers, clive

Well according to the book I think it's 10,000 miles. It was serviced every

Same here with my Audi. What engine's your Fabia got? Is it one of the PD TDI ones? I use mine mainly for long-ish driving / spirited back road driving, but occasionally do short trips in it. It's not the best for it, but I can't imagine an average of one short trip (

Well at 4 months old, my Touran (130 TDi) has just asked for its first service, at 18000 miles.

With the high miles that I cover variable servicing will reduce by over 1/3 the visits to the dealer.

My only concern is if the oil will last out 18000 between changes, but with all the long / high speed mileage most of the oil contaminates like water are driven out.

The old fixed interval servicing is normal based on lunar cycles, i.e. one year or average miles covered on one year. Is that really a good guide to when a car requires service. or just the maximum frequency acceptable to most drivers.

Chilly

Guy King ( snipped-for-privacy@zetnet.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

A little webcam mounted on the oil filler cap, tied to OCR software. When you remove the cap, you have to "show it" the can, then it scans and reads the label...

What's the odds that in the event of any sort of a problem, they'll claim you must have topped up with the wrong kind of oil..?

Heh!

Erm...not quite I don't think. I had the Carlton CDX for about 15 months I think. Mind you, the first Carlton I had for , ah, not as long, think about 7-8 months all in all, though it wasn't in regular use for a month and a bit, then I got a really mint Carlton, wrote that off, then went back to using the old one until someone drove into it. I got the Audi towards the end of last October, so that's 9 1/2 months so far. Definitely the most expensive car I've ever bought, and still the most likely to be kept for a long time.

Peter

Lets not all forget that this system has been running in germany for years and they know a thing or two about cars. And also VW has been known to sell a few fleet cars in its time so fleet managers will always weigh up costs of ownership even if they only keep the cars a few years.

Its does rely on a sensor to monitor the oil i believe but if it does fail i would not be surprised is a large £ symbol flashes on the dashboard display to inform you of impending robbery......;-)

Definitely

miles

It is an effective technology package which significantly lowers the total lifetime running cost of the vehicle at the expense of a higher production and purchase cost. No disguising needed.

Long term though, getting lax about

Not relevant in this context though.

(although

Any sensor or component fault would flag up an early service, which makes the system [for a system is what it is] failsafe.

Extending oils service life (which this

people

I do not understand your logic. *Any* oil change interval is a scientific judgement based on averages, but extended intervals as used by VW use better engines and significantly better filtration combined with very specific oils while the whole system is monitored and intervals modified according to *measured* parameters.

My skoda fab only tends to generally

vehicle

Again, your use of the word "skimping" is obviously not relevant. Also there is NO adverse effect on any vehicles serviced according to these systems. On the contrary, a service history with an Audi BMW or Mercedes fitted with these systems enhance the resale value, which are amongst the best in the motor industry. Such service intervals are now very well established and proven over a long term. There is nothing but benefit to the consumer while the dealer suffers in not seeing the customer at all often so has less chance of selling him added value goods and services.

Huw

Huw

If the oil was contaminated then the service interval would be automatically shortened to suit.

Normal milage and time based intervals are for average driving with a fair safety factor built in. Educated guesswork really, no more, no less.

The extended service interval is also overridden by a time factor of two years if approaching average annual milage is driven. IIRC vey low milage drivers are advised to use the alternative schedule using cheaper [normal] oil of one yearly changes.

And a 'long time' is likely to be "an engine that still sounds really sweet at 300k, 400k, 500k etc." in your care?

I don't think so somehow ;-)

Huw

It relies on various sensors, some of which are there for other purposes anyhow, to supply a computer which is programmed for an engine type using a specific oil type. Yes the oil condition itself is also monitored dynamically by measuring its resistance and the information is used to modify the change interval. Also measured are number of cold starts and plain, simple time itself. I am not sure that there is a stand alone computer for this. Most likely the function is integrated into the engine management computer which collects and computes all operating parameters while feeding control signals to both engine components and dashboard displays. In other words, there are actually very few *extra* components associated with this cost saving technology.

Huw

Come on Huw, you must be an employee of VW or at least sell them.......;-)

You must know, as people on this forum know, the electrics of vehicles are just another area of possible failure. As you mentioned the vehicle may not have many more components then a car without the variable service option its still has a few more. While I like to believe that variable service is a good thing, a possible max of 2 years (30000miles) between services may end up costing people alot of money.A yearly service is inconvenient to some people but it can be vital to spot problems before they can become serious or even dangerous. Most people may be able to spot problems themselves but others don't have the necessary skills. True the MOT is still bloody yearly on 3+ year old cars and this could end up costing a bit if the car has not been checked before going in but this would not necessarily spot all potential problems.

Just my thoughts.....

Where can I get one of these things fitted to my 1983 180000M+ GTI?

Jeff

them.......;-)

Nope. I don't even like Volksvagens. Have owned three, but the last was a nasty [to drive] Audi 90 Quattro bought in '88 and sold two years later. I have never been impressed by their product.

vehicles are

All cars have an increasing amount of electrics and that is driven primarily by emmission and safety legistlation. There is no getting away from this in the Western World. There are remarkably few electionic or electrical problems in modern cars considering the systems in place, from central locking and alarms [the worse offenders perhaps], to electric mirrors and windows to abs and stability controls to engine and transmission management systems [of which service computing is increasingly an integral part]. My Land Cruiser, which has electric almost everything, including steering column and suspension, has only had a brake light blow in six years. My BMW, in contrast, has failed due to a mysterious flat battery and a fuel injector while having an incurable wheel alignment problem in 18 months. No problem with any of the more sophisticated systems though.

It could be that an old car with such sophistication will present a third owner with the occasional uneconomic repair cost, but the service monitoring system will not be such a cause. It is perfectly possible, after all, to ignore the system and change the oil at [say] every 10,000 miles or one year if one is so inclined.

While I like to believe that variable service is a

I cannot see how. The driver continues to be responsible for regular checks on such things as fluid levels and tyre condition and the general roadworthiness of the car, as ever.

Huw

I agree but a large number of drivers never open the bonnet. Then you have the drivers who might top up the windscreen wash. Just from conversations with colleagues I guess that less than 10% of drivers actually check things like fluids & tyres.

services

regular

Then, no matter what the service interval, they are negligent and should expect early and steep costs. They deserve it and are unfit to be in charge of a wheelbarrow, let alone a high speed potential killing machine.

Huw