190E 2.3 vs. 2.6

2.6 is more silky but thats about it! No real noticable differences besides this! Driving these W201s' are a lot different than your Porsche 944, as they are not high performance machines and are not tuned as so,so just about anything you test drive on this level will never measure up unless you find a W201 EVO then you are up for a for a ride that will make you salivate!Oh yeah!!!!!!!!!

The 2.6 is a little more difficult to work on. The six is longer and is shoe-horned into the 201 chassis. For example replacement of the belt tensioner requires removal of the radiator. Peter

The w201 is a small car, a 2.3 is more than adequate enough for it. It's even quite good in a w124 with manual transmission. My brother had a w124 5spd with a 2.6 and it would drive over 120mph up mountain highways here in BC. In a w201 it would be a rocket, as a friend said who owned one. Keep your Porsche for the fast driving and get a sensible benz for your everyday commuting, better to wait out for one in good condition. Better to pay upfront for something exceptional than attempting to fix up a beater.

cp

looked after. Should be good for over 140mph and power

The guy's got a Porsche :-)

I wouldn't mind one if I lived in Europe, there's quite a bit of them there.

Though 140mph is not fast enough for me, I've driven faster in diesels :-) . No use for a car like that in the US unless you live near a raceway or are not afraid of being arrested :\

What was the last year of the 16v? My father or myself might go to Europe later in the summer, always brings some cars back, a 16v would be more interesting than a diesel westfalia like last time :)

Is there an interested in these cars on this continent? Would an American be allowed to buy one from Europe? hmmm could make it an ebay business...

cp

Damn,what kind of diesel do you drive,a Mercedes Benz C-111/III ?

140 mph plus in a diesel does not sound safe and all that racket,sheeezzz!

Most any modern high end German diesel will go 140mph. Some are considerably faster. I think the top-spec MB S-class, BMW 7 and Audi A8 diesels are all limited to 155mph. Unlimited, maybe 160? The VW Pheaton with the 330hp V10 would probably go 175mph without the limiter. Heck, even a top spec VW Golf TDI will go 145mph or so. Of course, the only one of the above that is sold in the US is the MB E320(?), that is still good for 140+, even in US spec.

I owned a US-spec 2002 VW Golf TDI, 90hp version. It would go an indicated

115mph all day long, and dead quiet too. Top spec in Europe in the same car is now 185hp I believe.

Kevin Rhodes Westbrook, Maine

Sorry,but I'm not that diesel savvy! Do modern diesels use the power steering pump for the supply of vacumm for power brakes still?This is what I mean as far as unsafe.That would be a bad day indeed if power steering belt flew off at such great speeds and have to stop in a hurry.DOA!!!

Heck no, but my 300D has the same engine! :-) (or similar)

Modern diesels

:-))))

cp

The last generation of 7 series BMWs had a diesel model which went almost 190mph. cp

There's even an AMG Diesel, here from Juergen's site

Also, SLK diesel

cp wrote: [snip]

later in the summer, always brings some cars back, a 16v

allowed to buy one from Europe? hmmm could make it an

The short answer is yes but with conditions.

You are allowed to import the non-US compliant vehicles to the USA, BUT you cannot drive or register the vehicle yet. The registered importers ought to sort the paperwork on your behalf for ridiculous amount of money. The compliance process is not cheap, especially for vehicles never been imported to the USA, namely 190E 2,5-16 EVO.

1. If the vehicle is not on the NHTSA list of approved vehicles and their variants, you must petition for the approval to homologate your non-US compliant vehicle to meet the DOT and EPA regulations.
2. If the vehicle is approved, you must enlist the registered importer to release it from US Customs stranglehold, er, I mean, hold.
3. The registered importer must do all of compliance work in accordance to the FMVSS108 for the build year: the list is quite long.
4. In addition, the registered importer must certify that the motor and its ancillaries meet EPA pollution regulations for the build year.
5. You can always convert the vehicle back to its original ECE version once US Customs cleared the paperwork and once the vehicle is registered with the state DMV agency. Make sure the registered importer agreed to retain all of original components and turn them over to you.

OR

You can wait five more years for the exempt on 1985 model as NHTSA allows the vehicles 25-year-old or older to bypass the compulsory safety regulations, BUT EPA will say, 'not so fast'. You must certify that the vehicle meets the EPA regulation for the build year.

OR

You can push the Congress to repeal the silly laws that created NHTSA. Congress is looking into the issue whether NHTSA is serving the public safety or not. We need to demand that US become the signatory member of ECE international automotive safety regulations. NHTSA has been a tragic mistake since its creation in the late 1960s and has failed the public many times over.

Oliver

hmmmmm I'm saving this, thanks!

It's so much simpler in Canada; you can import any car as long as it is 15 years old.

cp

later in the summer, always brings some cars back, a

allowed to buy one from Europe? hmmm could make it

cannot drive or register the vehicle yet. The

amount of money. The compliance process is not

variants, you must petition for the approval to

release it from US Customs stranglehold, er, I mean,

FMVSS108 for the build year: the list is quite

ancillaries meet EPA pollution regulations for the

Customs cleared the paperwork and once the vehicle

agreed to retain all of original components and turn

vehicles 25-year-old or older to bypass the

certify that the vehicle meets the EPA regulation for the

Congress is looking into the issue whether NHTSA is serving

member of ECE international automotive safety

1960s and has failed the public many times over.

So? ;-) A 944 is nice, but a 190E 2.3-16 will outperform it (or at least hold its own), seat four (a little) more comfortably, look better (personal opinion), hold its value better, and be a less common sight on the street. Oh - and my idle is rock solid.

The 2.3-16 was inported to the US in '86 and '87. In Europe, the displacement was then raised to 2.5 liters and eventually the Evo and Evo II were produced as homologation specials, in production runs of 502 cars each. I believe '92 was the last year of production. None of the 2.5 liter

16-valve cars were ever officially imported to the US.

There is a thiving 16-valve community on the 'net. EPA and DOT make it extremely difficult to import any of the European spec 2.5-16s. The 2.5-16 wasn't much faster than the 2.3-16, so it's really not worth the trouble. If you got your hands on one of the Evos, that would be another story, but I know of no one who has managed to get one federalized for street use. There are a couple of them in the states, but they are not street legal and are only used on the track.

Bill Balmer

190E 2.3-16 first 16V in the US featured in Car & Driver , March 1986

How wrong you are, let me count the ways...the 2.3-16 pulled an anemic .78g on the skid pad (R&T) while the 944 pulled .91g. The 944 was the best handling car you could purchase ON THE PLANET in the 80's and to some extent the early 90's. In a straight line, you could only hope to beat an old 8-valve N/A 944 because you would be embarrassed by an old S, S2 or Turbo.

I ran several tests...first comparing comparably equipped 1987 2.3-16 and a

1987 944S. According to nada.com the 1987 944S costs $3900 in poor condition up to $6250 for excellent condition. I gave the 2.3-16 the same features such as leather, sunroof and alloy wheels that came stock on the 944 and the 2.3-16 is valued at $3400 in poor condition and only $5500 for excellent. The average price for the 2.3-16 was only $4600, vs. $5250 for the 944S.

Then the final real world test. I searched at Autotrader for the entire scope of 1987 2.3-16...the average price...$3407, using the exact same criteria, the 1987 944 average price was $7069. Until the 968 got a bit long in the tooth by 1995, you could not and cannot get more sports car value for the money than a 944, period.

Not trying to start a flame war or anything, just fighting off baseless comments.

was then raised to 2.5 liters and eventually the

502 cars each. I believe '92 was the last year of

to the US.

hmmm lucky us here in Canada, we can get this car :-)

extremely difficult to import any of the European spec

worth the trouble. If you got your hands on one of the

one federalized for street use. There are a couple

Wow! What's the max speed on those things? From experience the manufacturer max speed listings always seem to be lower :)

cp

I think he was talking about a non-turbo :)

How are the late 80's tubo 944, reliable and robust?

cp