E-Class: 2004 E320 to become E350 for US?

Quite possibly.

The problem is that the E320 CDI (diesel), is faster, cheaper and more economical than the petrol E320. Which means in Europe sales of the E320 are pretty poor.

This is what killed off the S320 and it was replaced with the S350 in order to offer a product superior to the S320 CDI.

Merc diesels are getting too good for their own good. And it is amusing their refusal to export the V8 diesels.

Its a damn shame, drove a left hand drive S400 CDI, it was sweet.

Yes, but if you really want a diesel V8, there is one in the Audi A8, although it isn't quite flashy enough for British tastes, the A8 does better in Germany where people are less keen to flash their cash.

Also there is the diesel V10 in the new VW Phaeton.

So Merc had better start offering its V8 diesel to us soon!

Apparently there are AMG variants of diesels too now!

Going on technical merits & ignoring the effects of any tax disincentives on diesel cars, i'll certainly prefer the diesel version of the E 320 or S 320 to the inferior petrol version !

I don't seem too impressed with the so-called S 350 petrol model as it's a 3.7 litre & performance expectations etc. to be seen in the context of a 3.7 litre engine. Also, in all consistency they ought to label it as S 370 instead to reduce confusion !

Anycase, i'll still prefer the (diesel of course !) S 400 over the 'S 350' or more appropriately what which should be known as S 370, unless they reduce the engine size to 3.5 litres in order for the S 350 label to have its real meaning !!!

With few exceptions, their diesel models are nowadays the better models over their petrol models ! Especially in fuel efficientcy, economy, torque performance & possibly even (non-idling i.e. crusing or accelerating) noise levels in that it's quieter !! Exhaust particulate emissions are relatively insignificant minor 'irritants' with the latest diesel cDi charge-cooled technologies. Therfore overall, the prefered choice remains diesel over petrol or electric or fuel-cell etc. least for the time being.

Oliver Keat>

Are not those particulate emissions unusually toxic?

Correction : I meant significantly toxic.

charge-cooled

Yes. They are a problem. The issue has split the world.

Japan is very anti-diesel, all diesels in cities must be scrapped after 7 years !!

Europe is very pro-diesel, looking at the fuel economy and CO2 benefits, while other emmisions are rapidly being brought under control.

Meanwhile the USA just doesn't care :)

Aside from fuel costs there's a good reason for US consumers shunning diesels. The USA had a flirt with diesels 25 years ago, which began with VWs introduction of the Rabbit (Golf 1) diesel in 1977, a conversion of their standard gasoline inline 4 cylinder. Money-see-monkey-do GM followed shortly thereafter with their own range of hastily converted, poorly engineered gasoline V8s.

Aside from poor performance, these proved to be hopelessly unreliable, to the point where GM was replacing engines at a rate of nearly 50% of production at one point (Rumor from GM service types was that the other 50% just went off into the woods & died!) GM faced massive consumer litigation and thus would pop for free replacement engines on theses vehicles at ridiculously high mileage. Hundreds of thousands of consumers bought these bogus products in good faith and not only never bought another diesel, many dumped GM forever, leaving the door wide open for the Japanese to conquest market share.

As for VWs cool little diesel, while the initial (77-79) run of these cars was in hot demand, by 1980 fuel supply fears eased in the US and VW diesel sales cooled. VW then had big problems with internal block casting cracks on the 80 and later models which filled the cooling systems with oil. Other problems arose with the fuel system, premature ring failure due to high sulphur fuels in some parts of the US (usually people running across the border into Mexico to by $.15 /gal. fuel.), broken crankshafts, etc.To VWs credit these problems were addressed rather quickly, and turbo versions were introduced that mitigated performance complaints, albeit at the risk of even more reliability problems. This actually triggered VWs sad 15+ year slide into oblivion here in the USA, which didn't turn around until the introduction of the New Beetle in the late '90's. Many a former VW devote ran to Honda, Toyota, etc. and has never returned.

As far as i'm concerned, i consider that both petrol & diesel each have their different types of pollutants or 'toxins' etc. & there's no clear cut objective determinant as to which is overall the more 'unhealthy' fuel to use !!

Therefore, i prefer to regard petrol & diesel as on the same level of preference, to say the least, with their different pros & cons considered.

But i'll still utimately prefer a (modern cDi charge-cooled, not a primitive !) diesel over even the latest Kompressor or turbo petrol engines etc. as from the area of specific fuel efficientcy, fuel economy, long driving range & good torque performance (which i prefer over 'high' power outputs as i find high torque more practically useful than high power in a stop-start driving envirnoment etc.) the latest M-B diesels especially do appear as superior alternatives to theirs or for that matter, almost any other petrol engines around !

Even IF the 'toxicity' of pollutant discharge from a diesel vehicle is more than a petrol model, due to the far superior fuel efficientcy in a diesel, less volume / weight of diesel would be used to generate the same level of output performance compared to a petrol model i.e. the petrol engine would have to burn up more weight / volume of petrol fuel to match the same performance output as the diesel model, thereby that can effectively 'negate' any advantages of perceived lower levels of 'toxicity' with petrol ! I find the Japanese diesel vehicles especially their cars & vans inferior in performance, noise vibration harshness levels compared to European diesel vans & cars. Nothing outstanding about Japanese diesel vehicle emission levels as well. So if the Japanese are 'anti-diesel', due to the lousiness of their own diesel vehicles, that's then no surprise to me !

The Europeans are very much into further improvements in diesel technology compared to others so it's nothing surprising if they end up making the best diesels around that can remove much of the 'anti-diesel' sentiment around which tends to be based on inferior & outdated diesel technology, as that's about all the rest of the world knows when it comes to diesels !

I find USA diesels 'so-so' in appeal so that can explain their 'lacklustre' interest in diesel cars & vans especially. I figure they need to try out the modern European diesel models much more to fire up greater interest in preference for diesel models !

Oliver Keat>

Well, the scene is changing constantly. A few years ago, I would have been adament that the solution would be to move towards more fuel-efficiency in petrol cars, and possibly running cars on cleaner fuels such as LPG.

The thing is modern cars are now very clean, including diesels, so the only problem left is the CO2 one, for which diesels always perform considerably better, and modern diesel technology has only widened the gap between the fuel efficiency of petrol vs diesel cars.

Its a bit of chicken and egg.

European governments have generally given tax breaks to diesel fuel, making it about 30% cheaper than petrol. As a result it is considered quite eccentric not to choose a diesel car, and indeed diesels now outsell petrol cars 2 to 1 in Europe, even new-car buyers tend to go diesel, not just because of the fuel efficiency, but because petrol cars tend to suffer more rigourous depreciation. So I think it is this strong market drive which has caused European manufacturers to get serious about diesel.

In Japan where there are strict anti-diesel regulations because of their percieved dirtiness, there is far less incentive to develop the technology.

'lacklustre'

I think most American's have a strong anti-diesel prejudice as Gerald pointed out. I can imagine the idea of a diesel S-Class would be met with stares of shock from Americans, but in Europe even the diesel S-Class outsells the petrol versions.

But there is the issue of sulphur. Europe has widely adopted ULSD (ultra-low-sulphur-diesel), again wtih various tax breaks and incentives. The USA has no particular reason to embark on such a thing, because of the low number of diesel cars. And as a result it is much harder for diesel cars to be certified at emmissions tests in the USA. Chicken and egg.

In the UK diesel fuel costs the same as petrol, yet diesel-car sales are rising. It's not just the lower fuel costs that drive this, though I don't doubt it's a factor, perhaps especially with fleet operators.

DAS

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