Is it really a Mercedes or more a Chyrsler ??

The only company benefitting from this partnership is Chrysler . You can see it evident in some of their new products. Its ashame that Mercedes seemed to have compromise their high build quality and reliability standards in order to sell more cars to the masses. It seems every Tom Dick and Jane are driving around in Mercedes Benz whereas in the past it was harder to obtain. Thank you.

don't forget Harry .... nevertheless, your PC attitude is refreshing

- regards

mercedes ownership has always been within the reach of your regular car owner - secondhand. all the secondhand benzes i've had have driven way better (and been more reliable than) new cars of so-called lesser marques. sure, a snob value attaches to mercedes, but the secondhand buyer has always been the wisest, and does not succumb to the cachet of buying a new merc but capitalises on its qualities later on, when the original buyer has moved on to the next new thing. i'm always amazed that people are prepared to buy a secondhamd ford or gm product instead of a german made benz: the perception is that the mercs are expensive to run, but this is simply not borner out in reality.... when my 190e recently came up for its MOT test, it passed without needing so much as a wiper blade or a bulb; by contrast, any ford or gm or whatever (of similiar age) would have needed welding and godknows whatelse to get it through. indeed, there are very few of those cars actually in existence, so shabbily were they designed and put together.

ignore people like the poster you replied to: just be thankful for quality secondhand mercs.

if you have questions about reliability go to J.D. Powers or Consumer Reports.

Once again displaying his ignorance by recommending an American organization and an American publication to someone who is obviously in a market that is

*not* North America. Hey, Butterbrain, when's the last time you saw either a BMW *or* Audi diesel sold new in the US?

-- C.R. Krieger "Ignore 'em, m'dear; they're beneath our dignity." - W.C. Fields

I think there looks like there is no choice.....it looks very much like it's gonna be an Audi A8 4.0turbodiesel Quattro Saloon.....

What do you mean that there is no choice? Over in Europe we have the Audi Allroad and various Quattro's, BMW X3 and X5, VW Touareg with either 2.5 or 5.0 engine, all kinds of Japanese and Asian brands, Volvo Cross Country and XC90, Land and Range Rover and many others available with diesel. The A8 is a good choice apart maybe for the depreciation aspect. It would be my choice in four years time, after you have put a few miles on it. Top banana in the UK has to be the BMW X5 which retains its value extraordinarily well so far. My personal favourite for all round road performance has to be the VW V10 Touareg, which I drove the other day.

Huw

So long as you know that not all Benzes are made in Germany. There's the USA, South Africa...

DAS

"Huw" wrote

Almost all that you mention below are SUV's, not saloons (sedans). Please give him reasonable feedback rather than randon gibberish.

Floyd

Thanks Floyd, there appears to be more and more people answering like this in newsgroups rather than actually reading the question.

Anyways, I do agree with that poster on one point - it will be a secondhand purchase after several, 3-4 years (to knock off a lot of depreciation).

Best regards.

AFAIK, this different nomenclature is not followed that carefully in Europe as it's in the US. At it makes sense to me. "All wheel drive" and "four wheel drive" should mean the same as long as the vehicle has four wheels.

Mostly true, but things are getting murkier. The new Chrysler Crossfire is already made in Germany. Also, the differences between the new Saab 9-3, the new Chevy Malibu, and the new Opel/Vauxhall Vectra are smaller than ever.

I do not regard either the Quattro's, Allroad, X5, X3, Volvo or even the Touareg as SUV's. They are rather big saloon cars which have varying driving heights. The difference between a so called SUV and a saloon is becoming ever more blurred. In my fleet I avoid the term SUV and prefer to differentiate by whether the vehicle is more performance biased or more heavy duty biased. The same customer may view the BMW X5 and the Range Rover, Quattro, Allroad and Volvo XC70 and 90, which all lack a chassis, along with the Mercedes M, which has a chassis, when making a buying decision. The Audi 4.0 diesel is an excellent choice of its type because as a front wheel drive vehicle the torque generated by the engine is probably just too much to make it a pleasant drive. The same is true of the Touareg V10 5.0 which just has to have four wheel drive to work. It is also a very nice alternative to the A8 Quattro. You should try it in tandem with an A8. I have and know which I would prefer to drive. My friend has an Audi A6 Allroad diesel and has just done over 80,000 miles in 18 months. He is very pleased with it. In essence this is just a slightly higher and better equipped A6 Quattro. He loves it, except for a fairly flat bottom end performance from the engine. He will probably not have another one, just because 100,000 miles in such a short time is enough in one model of vehicle. It gets boring.

Huw

luxury

combination exists,

Hmm. I am not sure whether the diesel is a 4x4 or not. Up until you mentioned it, I was fairly confident that the only front drive version was the entry level 2.0 petrol. Have had a look in Car magazine with no luck.

Absolutely. 'SUV' is not widely used here. A BMW X5 is hardly an utility vehicle. It is just a [slightly] higher standing 5 Series with quite small load area. It has four wheels, all of which are driven. It is considered as a potential purchase by the same people who consider all varieties of Audi, Mercedes, Range Rover, Volvo, Subaru and even by some as the 7 series BMW and other vehicles that are not even all wheel drive. In fact I changed a Jaguar XK8 sports coupe for the LAnd Cruiser and have never regretted it. Maybe the absolute classification of vehicles, which makes at least one poster here rather hot under the collar, is a particularly childish American phenomenon? Certainly most European potential Audi A8 4x4 buyers would consider the Audi Allroad, VW Touareg and Range Rover but probably not a Jaguar X Type due to its very compact passenger compartment.

Huw

Well, my own definition is, if all the differentials are (or can be)

*locked*, then it's 4WD because all 4 are driven at any given instant. If any diffs are open and one wheel *may* slip as a result, then it's AWD. Notice that *some* vehicles (most Jeeps) can fit both definitions, depending on the drivetrain setting. *Getting*, but not there yet. There are currently *no* Benz models that could be considered 'Chryslers' with a tri-star badge. In response to the OP, who's shopping *now*, my response is accurate.

-- C.R. Krieger (Been there; done that)

drive" and

instant. If

Then all Land Rovers are AWD while old Land Cruiser 80's were 4WD while recent 100 Series are AWD. Not a very helpful definition IMO, especially as all the 4wd vehicles by your deffinition will also be rear, front or AWD when the diffs are open.

Huw

Just to muddy the waters ;o)

Personally I'd consider a 4WD as something that I (as the driver) can modify the behaviour of. An AWD is what it says on the tin - AWD, as defined by the manufacturer.

Of course, by this definition, many modern 4WDs might become AWDs..

H1K

"Hairy One Kenobi" wrote >

defined by the

" How it works" is of only academic interest. As long as it does work, then I am happy. All the vehicles which have drive to all four wheels have worked in the environment for which they were designed. The x5 and Volvo are only suitable for places where the standard saloons can go. The only system I find fairly useless is 'hill descent control' on the station wagon that is the X5. It is also fairly useless in the Mercedes M because it cannot be switched off in that application and can be the cause of slides. In my experience, almost all owners of Volvo, Audi, VW and BMW 4x4's only consider them to be big saloon cars, which is after all what they are, albeit with drive to four wheels as a bonus. Would they sell without the fashionable 4x4 tag? Yes. After all, most Audi and BMW 5 series sold are not fitted with 4x4 and those that are, seldom leave metalled roads or see more than a light sprinkling of snow or some ice, which is all they are capable of.

Huw

There is however the Dodge Sprinter which is a Mercedes Sprinter without the Tri-star and a less attractive grill. Otherwise it is identical from what I can see on the Dodge web site. They even kept the name.

I like it.

That's really funny. It's like a taller Vito, isn't it? But I guess C.R. still technically(*) right, since the Sprinter is a van. And also, he was looking at Chryslers badged as MB's and not the opposite as the Sprinter is.

(*) After all he's a lawyer!