Re: If you're hungry for power or fuel efficiency, beware of a scam like this one:

Hi,

I have a question about hybrids: is it true that kind of battery used in hybrids can be recharged at most several hundred times?- so after that it needs to be replaced. How many years would such a battery last?

Thanks, Boris

Don't know the battery specifics, but I have a neighbor who recently purchased a midsize Ford hybrid. It's like an Escape or ??, it's about the size of a Honda Pilot.

He told me that the thing has a 96HP electric motor which, of course, does most of the start and stop heavy work. He also says that the batter(y)(ies), in the rear of the vehicle, are covered by a special warranty for eight years, or 100K miles. The vehicle warranty is three years, or 36K miles.

Sounds right under moderate drive. I'm not sure if Boris is trying to test our knowledge. Every battery has its limitation, if you brake hard (you put in 2A, you only get 1A in return approximately), this explains why some people get 25-32mph on a hybrid. If you want more mileage, plan ahead and try to avoid braking. If you're in a rush, speeding and braking won't save you energy, only with our tune-up vehicles you can speed and brake often, you still will come better than a hybrid 37-41mpg usually on aggressive drive, otherwise 51mpg.

GasSaver

Correction: > people get 25-32mpg on a hybrid for agressive drive.

Hybrids usually use NiMH (nickel metal hydride) batteries. Generally, 500 to 1,000 full discharge/charge cycles is about the upper limit for the life of such a battery.

But hybrid cars don't discharge their batteries very deeply at all. So the above figures become somewhat meaningless. In that situation, what's important is the cumulative total energy taken from / returned to the battery. And just age and temperature related degradation.

We'll really have to wait and see as a history develops for this battery chemistry in this application.

John

Thanks for the info. What about plug-in cars (like Tesla)? Will their batteries die rather fast?

Boris

I'm a little skeptical. Just because they warrant the batteries for 8 years/100K miles doesn't mean they'll last that long. After 100K, which could well happen well before 8 years, you get stuck with cost of battery replacement which I understand is around $6000. Assuming the best case scenario of the batteries lasting 100K it still adds $0.06/mile to your "fuel" cost, possibly more. The difference in fuel cost/mile from my motorcycle at 45mpg and my 300D at 27mpg is only $0.02/mile. SO what you wind up with after the warranty period is a worthless pile of junk that will likely have a bigger negative environmental impact from disposing the batteries and cluttering the junkyards than all the feelgood it generated.

JD

I currently drive a car that's 8+ years old and has 90K+ miles on it - hoping to keep it for 2-3 more years. I feel that car technology could change significantly over the next several years - not sure it's worth buying a new gas or even hybrid vehicle now.

Boris

I see. Why do they prefer diesel cars in Europe (as opposed to hybrids)? Also, I have a subie - when I go skiing I never need chains, even in deep snow (unless road is completely closed for traffic - then I can't use it obiously). From reviews (for example, at edmunds.com) Lexus RX hybrid doesn't have a potent AWD system.

Boris

OOPS - sorry: Edmunds says that about Highlander, Lexus RX review doesn't say anything about AWD system.

Cons

Third-row seats fold as one piece rather than in split sections, not suitable for off-road or serious winter duties.

Yes, but while drving it around town, the greenies get to feel like they are so much better than the rest of us and are doing something that will save the environment. That alone is priceless.

How about the news stories on the all electric cars or plug-in hybrids? They go on and on about how the cars emit zero or low emissions, but NEVER mention the electricity has to come from somewhere. If ever pushed on it, the greenies come up with the usual story, which is the electricity will come from wind and solar.... Yet when it comes time to actually implement that, who's blocking it? The greenies again, who don't want windmills offshore, in the desert, etc because that too is harmful to the environment.

There are 4 good reasons, 1)for durability 2)for 50% more fuel efficiency(diesel costs more so you come out about 25% better than gasoline) 3)room 4)security.

You don't need a new 2009 Toyota Highlander Hybrid for 25% increase in MPG. We can turn your regular SUV for 30% or better MPG output.

GasSaver

I'd expect so - shorter life that those used in hybrids.

I haven't researched the battery types used in full-electric cars, but I'd expect them to be more exotic chemistries, selected with very strong emphasis on the energy-to-weight ratio.

John

And in a number of countries diesel fuel is (or was) MUCH cheaper than petrol, tho' there might also have been a compensatory tax on the car... it's a complex issue.

In this context it is noteworthy that Britain was late to take to diesel. The fuel did have a price advantage but no longer since the tax rates were aligned with petrol.

DAS

To send an e-mail directly replace "spam" with "schmetterling"

How would I do that? Which technology would I use?

Boris

Snake oil.

Typical guess from common ignorance.

There is one American man making over millions for turning a HUMMER into a

Same gasoline technologies. We have nothing to hide, everything is revealed at our web site

When our cars move, they moves swiftly, you don't normally hear the engine noise. That proves we make your engine work less hard.

When out-of-gas light is one, you can still go 100-120 miles with ours. That proves the ECU thinks it can go 40 miles only because we don't mess around with the car's software.

From

John