Safest car?

Please consider checking the real world Injury Collision and Theft results at:

They are produced by the insurance industry based on what they actually pay out, not artificial testing methods. The primary problem with most artificial tests is that they ignore weight issues. Sure, in the fine print they say you can only compare vehicals of similar weight but putting 4 stars on minicars with sickening real world death rates (I'm talking about you EU and Japan) seems criminal to me. People without alot of money should know the truth, that statistically they would be much safer buying a quality used car than a cheap new car. Cars with better insurance profiles are also much cheaper to insure which can actually save money over the course of owning it compared to buying a cheap death trap with high insurance.

As for reliability, most major car manufactures have both good and bad models. For example, GM makes both the LeSabre, which actually rates better than an average Toyota (JD Power 2003 3 year study) in reliability and the Hummer H2, which rated dead last in quality of all consumer vehicals sold in the US last year. Any *real* car guy will tell you the same. For example, the classic 300E was solid in pretty much every way, but the C280 is infamous for costing more to fix than to buy. BMW 5 solid, Z3 junk. Lexus LS400 solid, RX300 not. I know many people and Consumers Reports disagree with this, but the numbers back it up. Another thing to consider is the same model can be made in different countries. For example, the VWs made in Germany and sold in Europe are much more reliable than the same cars made in Mexico and sold in the US. Similar story with the Camrys made in Japan vs the early ones made in the US. Also consider where you will drive with the car and what parts and service cost there. An E320 is great to drive around San Diago or Germany, but would be no fun if you needed service in say, North Dakota. I have a friend that's been waiting weeks to get parts for his 500SL in Vegas when he can still get parts for his classic Mustang at almost any autoparts store.

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You might find the not-for-profit consumer education and advocacy organization "ConsumerAffairs.org" website & newsletter quite interesting >>

Very welldone automotive affairs coverage.

Also look at this, though American cars (i.e. US-brands made in the US) hardly figure:

DAS

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That's interesting and surprising!

DAS

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That makes the Merc safer! I suggest that the Merc's crumple zone also helped the Maxima driver. (I wonder if the head restraint was set at the right level -- may drivers leave it too low.)

DAS

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No, that was a 280S from the S-Class W140 model.

And YES, I AM sure!

Juergen

VCopelan, what you say is just not true. And biased comments like "rice rockets" is just your attempt to personalize a scientific fact...Lexus vehicles have better quality than Mercedes with durability that is at least as good, perhaps better. The first Lexus was built only 14 years ago...but the "early" data seems to show that a huge percentage of those 1990 model year cars are still running well. You can bortch and moan all you want, but Lexus did not become the #1 luxury car seller in the USA in just 14 years by putting out junk.

Lexus has become the number #1 luxury car seller in the USA because they are able to sell their cars at lower cost and Mercedes quality has dropped so they have lost market share. I would not own a new Mercedes because of the quality control and design issues with the new cars. I've owned Toyotas and I still own three Mercedes. By the way, in Japan Toyota doesn't even market their Lexus models as Lexus. They are all sold as Toyotas.

If you keep your Toyota long enough you will find that the replacement parts prices are several times higher than Mercedes. All the Japanese car makers have ownership interests in their parts suppliers. What I found with my Toyota, as the car gets older the manufacturer raises the parts prices to the point that you will not want to keep the car. Japanese cars have always had good quality control but their choice of materials is another matter. I don't think you will find many Lexus cars being driven to over 200,000 miles.

Not entirely true, there is still a hydraulic link between the brake pedal and the front wheels. If the system is functioning correctly then when pedal pressure is applied solenoid valves then close off the link between the pedal and the braking system, but their fail safe position is open.

I've driven a 211 E class at MBUK with the SBC system disabled and you can lock the front wheels if you stand on the pedal hard.

Probably because in Japan they don't have the same badge and size snobbery we have in the west...

Furthermore, Honda doesn't bother with "Acura" in the UK.

DAS

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You could not be more wrong. I thought Mercedes parts prices were high too until I owned a Toyota and a Honda. I can purchase most OEM Mercedes parts through greymarket sources outside the dealership. That's because Mercedes doesn't have an ownership interest in their parts suppliers. Toyota, Honda and Nissan are simply not that way. Many parts are available only from the dealership. And when the parts are only available from the dealership and the manufacturer only has a interest in supporting new cars, parts prices can go through the roof.

I gave my last Toyota to a charity because the parts prices were so high there was little market for the car. The car still ran fine but the manual transmission needed new syncros. Although, the interior had long since fallen apart and plastic engine parts were over $200. Little things like air inlet hoses from the air flow meter were $70. I've noticed in every Japanese car I've owned, the interior just falls apart. Exactly, how old is your Lexus and how many miles do you have on it? I would not be drawing any conclusions until you have tried to keep an old Toyota or Honda on the road at 200,000 miles or more. I've done that, I know what is involved. Internet bulletin boards aside, my real world experience has been quite different with two Japanese cars and three Mercedes.

Yes.

Last year I translated a satyric article by leading German computer magazine c't regarding cars and electronics, see

Juergen

I always thought the Japanese car makers marketed their more expensive cars with different brand names to make buyer believe they were getting a better car for the extra money. Otherwise, how would you justify buying a Lexus 300 instead of a Camary which can be exactly the same vehicle.

My neighbor has a 1990 LS400 with almost 200,000 miles on it. Here in Pittsburgh ANY car lasting that long is fantastic. His looks like new on the outside although the interior does show wear. As for me and for most people, the issue really is not how many parts you'll buy after 200,000 miles...it's how many parts you'll buy from the end of the warranty at about 50,000 miles to something less than 150,000 miles. And my 7 Mercedes cars along the way cost me BIG BUCKS during that interval.

Also, it's not always a function of miles. It's really a combination of miles and age.

Because it's NOT the exact same vehicle. Different interior, better paint, better wheels, better tires, longer warranty, more "toys" standard. True, it's BASED on the same vehicle but as General Motors, Ford & Chrysler have done for years and years, there are "tiers" for each bodystyle and Lexus is just the top Toyota tier.

(snip)

Or just buy a Benz from the previous generation in mint condition. No electronics or cutting-edge nonsense - just solidly built.

I would agree that it's a combination of miles and age. I would say all bets are off after 200,000 with any car. The only car I've ever driven well over

200,000 miles is a Mercedes. My Japanese cars have approached 200,000 miles but they have never made it there. However, what I found with the Japanese cars I've owned, parts prices increased significantly after the car was ten years old. For most owners it doesn't matter how many parts they will buy after 200,000 miles. My issue with Japanese cars it simply that their parts prices increase at a earlier age than with a Mercedes or BMW. A 12 year old Lexus will have parts prices which are significantly higher than anything you will find on a Mercedes of similiar age. So owning a fairly low mileage ten year old Japanese car becomes an expensive exercise. If you're not going to keep the car that long none of this really matters but I still would like to be able to keep a car after it's ten years old.

Can't say, but my 92 Chevy Caprice was rear ended while I was sitting still in traffic on a highway over a crest in the road.

The guy was driving a Taurus and by the time he hit me, had to be doing at least 40mph. I let off the brake just in time and floored it as the traffic in front of me started to move which lessend the impact I'm sure.

Net result, one totaled Taurus (brand new with 6k miles on it BTW) and a scratch on my rear bumper. Yep, just a scratch.

Parts of the Taurus were flying over the top of my car when he hit.

psycho