Advances in Suspension Technology

I always hear about these in magazines and the like. How modern cars have better suspension and therefore corner better etc. However, when you see underneath a lot of cars, the suspension appears to be basic mac struts and torsion beams at the back, much the same as a load of other stuff from the last 20 - 30 years.

Where does the difference come from? Better suspension setup? Stiffer shells? Better tyres?

Reply to
Doki
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"Doki" gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Possibly.

Yes.

Yes.

Don't forget the multitude of electronic arse-wipers, either.

Reply to
Adrian

Its mostly in the chassis design. You can have the same components in two cars but if the chassis design is s**te, it'll handle like a bag of shit.

Reply to
Conor

Often the suspension isn't quite as simple as it appears at first glance. Several designs have passive rear wheel steer, the springs are not as simple as they appear having variable rates, dampers have much better characteristics than older designs giving more optimal damping and less bounce than older models. And yes all of the above. Plus possibly lower unsprung weight and a better understanding of the use of anti-roll bars.

Fords (and the baby Jag) have the "control blade" rear suspension which looks superficially similar to a trailing arm but separates the spings and dampers and allows a degree of RWS.

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Probably tell you more than you want to know.

Reply to
Steve Firth

Better everything: dampers (now almost universally with a gasreservoir), springs (variable rate), pivoting parts and bushings (does your car still needs to be greased at 60 points every 2500 km?), tires (only 15 years ago a 205/50 on a rim of 15 inch was considered only for real sportscars), powersteering (so that hydraulics take the effort away and allow for a more free suspension design)

What has gone up too? Weight of the cars. This is strangely enough not detremental to roadholding *as long* as the grip is there.

Things become however a bit less in the rain or with overheated shockabsorbers or when the grip asked is not there anymore.

Best of both era's? Something light with modern components. Think Lotus Elise, a good Lotus Seven-clone and the like. Less obvious choices: a Pug 309 16V or BX16V with the softest tires you can find...

Tom De Moor

Reply to
Tom De Moor

Come to think of it, I'm sure one of the big advances with dampers is that nowadays you don't get cavitation causing the oil to froth so the damper is better able to control the return of the spring.

Reply to
Steve Firth

%steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Been around since at least the ZX in the early '90s.

Again, far from new.

With ubiquitous 17" alloys and f*ck-off-sized brakes?

Reply to
Adrian

Its the same as the "modern turbo diesel". Not really better by any major amount but percieved to be if enough people say it. And like global warming being caused by CO2...Like its a fact! The main thing that has actually helped is tyres and the lower profile.

Reply to
Burgerman

Even the MK2 Golf has some rear steer according to the people on VW Vortex. Polybushes f*ck it up.

Reply to
Doki

Chassis design? When people talk about that these days, they are normally really meaning suspension design - there is no chassis, of course, and most modern hatchbacks have very stiff shells. The primary determining factors on handling are the weight of the car and the suspension geometry - the dimensions of the main body of the car are largely irrelevant.

Reply to
Albert T Cone

Making trailing arms out of tinfoil and ahving sloppy bushes isn't rear wheel steer, it's "flopping about all over the road."

Did I say any of this was new?

"possibly"

Reply to
Steve Firth

Hehe. Have you actually been near a diesel in the last 10 years dude? I mean, I know you have a phobia, but you have to try to overcome these things. The PSA XUDT engines were amongst the best available 15 years ago - I quite like them and still run two cars with them in, but compared to almost any modern common rail unit they are coarse and gutless, with a narrow powerband. The really good modern diesels are *vastly* better. I haven't tried any of the BMW lumps, but the 6-cyl merc CDi lumps and even cheaper units like the 4-cyl Honda 2.2 Cdti lump are superb. They will pull properly from ~1200rpm up to near as damn it 5krpm.

Before you say it, I know that a turbo petrol of sufficient size would produce more torque and more revs and is better, but I couldn't afford to run one, so I don't really care. Modern diesels let me go fast for cheap, so I like them.

/end massive bite.

Reply to
Albert T Cone

Albert T Cone gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Not that a common-rail exactly has a hugely wide powerband, but you're right. However, there's one thing that the older-tech lumps are which the newer ones aren't.

Bombproof.

Reply to
Adrian

Yep loads.

I

You mean like the one on my brothers merc??? Its s**te and he moasns about it daily drives and sounds like a truck even with 3 turbos....

and

If you say so. But my GFs one certainly doesent...

Thats the only plus with deseasels economy.

Not as cheap as a nice smooth flexible V8 or V6 petrol on LPG though.

Reply to
Burgerman

Should you be interested heres a picture of his merc ion my drive. Apart fromn the usual tiny knot of power and about 35 auto gears to try and keep the engine happy and working in its "happy" zone which is enough to drive you nuts with hundreds of gearchanges per mile it also sports the ubiquitous smelly diesel oil stain smeared over the rear corner. And yes it still sounds harsh and like a truck, and its tiring to drive. If this is an example of the best "modern turbo diesel" that everyone keeps talking about then god help us... In real terms its about 10 percent better than the old diesel trucks I drove in the 70s. The petrol ones are massively more relaxing and smoother to drive. The only reason he has to suffer it is because the company accountant insists.

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Reply to
Burgerman

You could have the smooth quiet running of SI for Diesel money if you fed it LPG.

About 56p/L, 54p/L at Jet and Morrisons and less at ASDA. Just have to avoid 60+p/L at Shell's M-way or "off M-way".

Reply to
Peter Hill

also mentioning dampers older cars are probably oil filled and i think most modern ones are gas? or am i talking s**te?

Reply to
Vamp

yep...

They are all oil filled but some are gas presurised to stop oil foaming.

Reply to
Burgerman

Porsche 928

Reply to
Paul Laidlaw

'71 Cortina with dodgy void bushes.

Reply to
Pete M

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