180's Goat

I really like this car. It's an incomparable value at $14,000 to $15,000. I can easily go into rant mode. Let's just say that every mile has been a pleasure. Stomp on the gas at any speed and run it up to 100, the AT clicking off 6000 rpm shifts, you're pressed against the seat back the whole time as all your troubles melt away. When I think of the $30,000 I've poured into my '65 Mustang fastback, and what a regrettable shitbox it remains for all that (or even the $10,000 I've got in my '70 Cougar), insanity is the only word to describe it, when you can get so much car with the GTOs, the SVT Cobras, and the LSx Vettes now on the used car market for $20k plus or minus $5k. The biggest negative with the GTO is the smog regulation where I live, which requires a visual and a sniffer test every two years. These LS1 and LS2 heads breath so well, a swap to a still- streetable cam picks up 50 hp. Long tube headers, induction and an ECU tweak can double that. Then there are always the blower and turbo kits. . . . :-p Time to take the plunge, NoOp Patrick.

I know. I test test drove an, IIRC, '06 and even in super thick humidity/90 degree temps, with two passengers on board, the car romped. And romped hard! I loved it! Let's just say thoughts of pushing the sales goon out the passenger side door and taking off entered my mind a few times.

I know. That's why I want to kick folks in the head when they whine/ nit pick things about the new muscle cars -- i.e the looks of the newest Charger and GTO. What's to whine about with a 350-400 HP motor sitting on a RWD platform? Especially when the used car market will soon give you 20-50% off in a few years.

Again, I know. Have some friends with some serious LSX cars. In fact, one has a turbo and is pushing 600+ to the TIRES. He's offered/ promised me a ride -- when I get one, I'll post my impressions.

Well, I now have two kids with Bachelors, and one has left the nest the other is transitioning, so my days of writing checks to colleges is over. But in this next year I'll be doing some transitioning myself, so I'm going to wait before I buy. Plus, the Cobra continues to hum along. And though it now has a few "age spots", it still looks damn good... it's hard to get rid a car that doesn't cost you anything, runs/looks great, and can still click off high 13's... that is as long as I can stay out of the used car lots/ads...

Patrick

I thought of the 425 hp Charger SRT8 today, and wondered where they are selling used. I put a Miami ZIP code into the Autotrader search engine (last I heard you were a Floridian) and I see an '06 with 25k miles for $26,488, an '07 with undisclosed miles for $28,990, and an '06 with 1,180 miles for $29,900. That last one is essentially a new car! A brand new 425 hp car with a Mercedes E-class chassis and four doors for $30k. Now that's a little higher than the near-beater prices of the '04 GTOs and the '03-'04 SVT Cobras, but I would trade my "$30,000" '65 Mustang fastback for that car in a heartbeat.

I think your impressions will consist mainly of tire smoke molecules coating your nasal passages for the next few days. (Another negative of the GTO that I hadn't mentioned is that the rear wheelwells won't hold much more than a 245 mm tire. (My '65 Mustang -- another model famous for tiny wheelwells -- runs a 235/45-17.) A 600 rwhp 6 liter turbo is probably putting out a similar torque number, like 600+ lb-ft from 3000 to 5000 rpm. So traction will definitely be a problem.

What are you saying, that putting a car on the plastic is not the same as "doesn't cost you anything"? Not in my book.

Patrick,

Told you this about my 2002 Z28. Remember? It's fast just the way it rolled out the door. My car is 100% the way it rolled out of GM and it launches without wheel spin @ wide open throttle. My 5.0's would go up in smoke at any attempt of a hard launch. No idea what that stupid looking long bar going from the rear axle to the rear of the transmission is about but the car can get a lot of power to the ground with stock Goodyear Eagles. The LS1 is like an electric motor from about 1500 to 6000 RPM. I'm not happy with a lot of things in this car, but the engine is marvelous. Gets better gas mileage than my Contour on the highway. My Z28 has cast exhaust manifolds and one pipe from the engine to the muffler. Like they were trying to make it slow:)

One other note. Have an 03 Mustang too. Side by side in the garage it's a shock to see how much bigger the Camaro is. Inside, the Mustang is much more comfortable and easier to deal with. Unless GM woke up, the new Camaro will be another GM dud no matter what engine is in it. Have not driven a new Challenger yet, hope they hit the mark.

Al

About the LS1, before I bought my '04 GTO in April I read all the contemporaneous road tests, on the web sites Car & Driver, Road & Track, Motor Trend, and Automobile, and I don't recall any of them doing justice to this great engine. It's a beast when you get on it, but totally polite otherwise. One of the all-time great production line performance engines. The 400 hp 6 liter LS2 ought to be even better. I have never put much stock in the received wisdom of the members of the late model car mag community, but their failure to sing the praises of this great engine totally discredits their opinions on anything performance related.

That new Camaro will be bigger than the departed 4th gen, but I expect that the high belt line and chopped top windows will make for a claustrophobic driving experience. This is one advantage of the GTO over the 4th gen Camaro (or the Corvette): a higher driving position and bigger windows (although the backlight is in the same league as the '71 Mach 1). The current issue of Car & Driver predicts the V8 Crapmaros will weigh 3800 lbs, which is the same as the GTO. So performance is likely to be about the same.

I haven't seen any of the '09 Challengers on the road yet. But I expect them to feel really big, since they're built on the Charger platform minus four inches of wheelbase (iirc). Those Chargers are BIG cars. Also, the V8 Challengers weigh 4100 lbs, which is A LOT of weight. The driving experience will be more like a big German car than a pony car. A feeling of the ability to crush everything in your path.