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50 oz harmonic balancers

My son and I just put a new ford crate motor in his 67 Mustang. I got a used 50 oz harmonic balancer at the junkyard. We used the old timing chain cover which has the timing pointer on the drivers side. We set the timing at TDC and aligned the MSD ignition accordingly. Besides having the firing order wrong the first time around..we went clock wise instead of counter clockwise with the plug wires. We could not get it to fire. After a couple of hours of messing around we finally got it to run. We then put a timing light on it and it's not even on the timing scale. I'm thinking this harmonic balancer came off a car that had the 'pointer' or pickup on the passenger side. So that scale is of no use to us..since it on the wrong side. Is our thinking correct? Tony

Reply to
Tony Alcocer
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Possibly though I don't recall seeing a Windsor timing pointer on the left side of the motor. If this motor is one of the swoopy ones, I wouldn't be messing with junkyard balancers anyway. Be sure you are using the correct cylinder as #1 (right front... passengers side unless you're in England). If worst comes to worst, you can rough in the timing with a vacuum guage and fine tune from there.

Procedure...... disconnect and plug any vacuum leaches - power brakes should be OK but for sure disconnect the vacuum advance and EGR if equipped. Adjust the timing to achieve the highest vacuum reading reducing the curb idle if necessary. Once you have the highest vacuum reading, retard the timing slowly (tapping the face of the guage, occassionally) to drop the vacuum reading 1".

If this motor will see any high revs, I recommend a FluiDamp'r or similar. There remains the posibility that the balancer you have might have a spun ring. To verify, remove #1 plug and insert a soft wire (stripped copper house wiring is great) and bring #1 to what looks like TDC (the wire will stop moving up and will momentarily dwell at it's apex before it starts to descend)and double check the timing marks.

HTH.

Reply to
Jim Warman

Yes, that's possible. The newer motors have the timing pointer on the passenger side, the older ones on the driver's side. You're using an old cover with a new balancer. Probably won't match. You have a few choices, some expensive, some almost free. Buy an aftermarket balancer that has the two sets of timing marks: Fluidamper, about $250-300 (?). Replace the timing cover with a new style that has the fuel pump boss: hard to find, around $120. Or, simply make a new timing pointer out of scrap steel you have lying around. That's what I did, because I'm a cheap bastard ;)

Reply to
boB

Many neophyte Ford freaks don't realize that the firing order of the early

351W engine is different from the 221-, 260-, 289-, 302- and late 351W engines. The early 351W's firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8, while the smaller Windsor engine's firing order is 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8. What makes this interesting is that 289/302 cams are completely interchangeable with 351W cams, providing you match the firing order to the camshaft. If a 289/302 cam is used in a 351W engine, the firing order must be changed to the 302 sequence by moving the wires on the distributor cap. The same procedure is used if a 351W cam is used in a 289/302W engine where the firing order in the distributor cap must match the camshaft.
Reply to
Mr. Ford

The motor is running great..nice and smooth..so I don't think I have a spun balancer. We have MDS ignition with out vacum advance. I was just thinking of finding TDC by rotating the motor until #1 is at TDC..then painting a mark on the balancer where ever the point happens to be pointing at ..and then measure out 10-16 BTDC marks and go from there. Tony

Reply to
Tony Alcocer

That will get you in the ball park. Personally, I don't worry too much about what the exact static timing is. I get the timing pretty close. With the engine warmed up, and the idle set where I want it, I set a 1/2 glass of water on the fender. Then I turn the distributer until the idle is the smoothest, as evidenced by the water in the glass. Then I adjust the total timing according to how the engine runs. You generally have to play with idle and timing both until you're happy. Not very scientific, but works really well for each individual engine in each individual environment. What works good for a similar engine in FL, probably won't work well for my engine in CO.

Reply to
boB

My only question is WHY you would put a junkyard harmonic balancer on a BRAND NEW crate motor?! Doesn't make sense to spend that kind of money on a motor and then put used/questionable parts on it.

Reply to
Iggy

V'ger jma(NOSPAM)@snowcrest.net

1965 Mustang Fastback 2+2 Vintage Burgundy w/ Black Std Interior 289 ci 4v V8 oem A Code Dual Exhaust C4 Auto converted to AODE 8" Trak Lok Vintage 40 wheels BF Goodrich gForce T/A 225/50ZR-16 KDWS tires Built in San Jose, CA on my birthday, May 10th ; ) Restoration by: Cool Mustang Restorations Cool, CA
Reply to
V'ger

V'ger This is a Ford Crate engine(M-6007-XB3) 5.0 (302) and it takes a 50 oz balancer. His old 289 took the 28 oz balancer. I can't really answer your question but to say the year of the motor has something to do with what size blancer it takes Tony

Reply to
Tony Alcocer

I have to say that is a new one to me. I'm thinking that it doesn't work very well with a high performance setup since the glass of water would most likely end up on the ground. lol

MadDAWG

Reply to
MadDAWG

Yes it is.

The 302 was a 28 oz imbalance up till 1981. In 1981 they went to a 50 oz imbalance. The 351w is a 28 oz imbalance.

The flywheel and balancer must match the crank imbalance.

MadDAWG

Reply to
MadDAWG

Duct tape!

Reply to
boB

.boB = Macgyver? :)

MadDAWG

Reply to
MadDAWG

V'ger jma(NOSPAM)@snowcrest.net

1965 Mustang Fastback 2+2 Vintage Burgundy w/ Black Std Interior 289 ci 4v V8 oem A Code Dual Exhaust C4 Auto converted to AODE 8" Trak Lok Vintage 40 wheels BF Goodrich gForce T/A 225/50ZR-16 KDWS tires Built in San Jose, CA on my birthday, May 10th ; ) Restoration by: Cool Mustang Restorations Cool, CA
Reply to
V'ger

The balance depends on how the engine is built. New factory

5.0/302's have a 50oz balance. In the olden days, the 302 had a 28 oz balance. I'm not really sure why the change, but there it is. You can have the engine balanced to 0 oz if you want to spend the money. The entire rotating assembly must match: crank, rods, pistons, balancer, flexplate/flywheel. Here's the thing to remember. The harmonic balancer doesn't really balance the engine. The weight of the crank (mostly) and rotating assembly does that. The HB balances harmonic vibrations, so to speak. So you just have to match all the right parts.
Reply to
boB

sorta like using sound to cancel out sound it appears. Guess I stick with the 28 ouncer for now with my 289 oem 4v. If I have to rebuild it sometime, I am thinking 347 stoker or 351C. Without cutting, can't cram much more into a 65 Fastback.

The main thing is I'm learning stuff here.

OLDEN DAYS?!?!?!?! OUCH!!!!!!! LOL ; )

I just sold my 66 Fastback (289 2v) which was built the year I graduated High School. That was the year I kept going by the ford dealer's and drooling over a California Special in the show room.

OK, so you may have had a pet rock... I just had primordial ooze for a pet. L-O-L

V'ger jma(NOSPAM)@snowcrest.net

1965 Mustang Fastback 2+2 Vintage Burgundy w/ Black Std Interior 289 ci 4v V8 oem A Code Dual Exhaust C4 Auto converted to AODE 8" Trak Lok Vintage 40 wheels BF Goodrich gForce T/A 225/50ZR-16 KDWS tires Built in San Jose, CA on my birthday, May 10th ; ) Restoration by: Cool Mustang Restorations Cool, CA
Reply to
V'ger

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