Faulty engineering? Is it faulty engineering when some one becomes electrocuted because they were using hair dryer in the shower? It happens, why do you think there is a warning placard on the electric cord advising you not to do so? There is nothing faulty in the design of the switches. The only thing faulty I see is your reasoning.
>Greg B. opined in news:nVO0b.158930$Oz4.43374@rwcrnsc54:
Do a search on this group and note all the complaints about slow and sluggish windows.
This would be directly reflected in the current draw and a constant source of complaint... it wont work, except when the cars are new.
Besides THEN you'd have to have a limit switch on up and down positions..
Thats why I dont understand why they dont use the lift-switch.
Stuart&Janet opined in news:KAT0b.189$ snipped-for-privacy@mantis.golden.net:
Hurricane hasnt been on there for months, if I thought there was a chance there'd be flaming,, I never would have sent to both.
Otherwise I thought it was pertinent to both. The SIG is pushing this on every local news they can.. about every 6 weeks or death, whichever comes first.
If you make it idiot proof they build a better idiot.
Millions of cars need the "ventomatic" proximity detector on them for the handful of nitwits that want to sauté their children or pets. That's ludicrous. At no cost? Even more ludicrous. I have to pay for a feature to save some other dimbulb from killing their offspring? Here's a better invention. If it detects movement an announcement declares to the world that a living creature is being roasted alive inside and to call the authorities as a possible "criminal negligence causing death" is being perpetrated.
The point is they DON'T BELONG IN A VEHICLE BY THEMSELVES PERIOD! NO BUT!
Let's use your example elsewhere.
People cut fingers off in saws quite often. We have the technology to make the blades out of harmless foam rubber but how do you cut the things you're meant to with them. Would you leave your child unsupervised with a power saw plugged in? A vehicle is not a babysitter. At its basic level it is tool or appliance for transportation and used incorrectly it will do more than cut off digits as you can see everyday in the news.
How about applying logic and common sense and maybe a dash of better driver training? Naw, WAY TOO DIFFICULT! That would put the onus on the operator as opposed to blaming some "poor engineer"
StuK
I bet more people died from choking on chewing gum.
So let's see...
A parent leaves a kid, Alone in the car, Not in a seatbelt , With the KEYS in the ignition , Turned to the ON position.
but it's FORD that is negligent ?
"Mike King" wrote
A small design change would prevent some accidents that cause a couple of fatalities a year. The change wouldn't cause the windows not to work, or add to the price of the car, so what's the big deal?
Well, that was an interesting rant, but totally irrelevant. Are you saying that if there are several deaths a year, and there is a fix that has essentially 0 cost, Ford et al should ignore it?
"Stuart&Janet" wrote
Well, that's true.
cost? Even more
Actually, it was a hypothetical that someone else brought up. I said 'at no cost' because the specific situation we were talking about with electric windows would save a couple of lives a year and wouldn't change the cost.
the blades out
Now you're just getting ridiculous. Personally, I don't see why you're against a simple change that would save a couple of lives a year at no cost to you.
More people than that die every year from falling out of bed I'd be willing to bed. Every year, not every 20 years.
Yeah, everyone's looking for an excuse to sue someone and get rich. Show some creativity and find a different way that doesn't require leeching off of everyone else. These are the same people that bitch because everything costs too much.
JS
"Thomas Moats" wrote
I haven't seen that. All I've read are some people getting angry that a relatively small design change might be made to prevent some injuries when kids are playing with the electric windows. And lots of comments that the change shouldn't be made, because it's the parents' fault.
So, answer the question. Why wouldn't you make a change that would save some lives at virtually no cost? And what does that have to do with the government?
Where is this 0 cost coming from? Sure it's cheaper to fix something at the design stage but 0 cost? I don't think so. How much do you figure they're paying that engineer staff, etal? And they want him to work on things to save or make money not cost more! Do the math, if the production of the Mustang is say 200,000 in one year and the cost of the "fix" is say $2.50 per car? That's a cool 1/2 mill OFF the bottom line. See why there aren't any lock cylinders on the passenger doors of new 'stangs?
The rant isn't irrelevant. Do we really need the gov't picking our pockets some more? Do they have a monopoly on intelligence? Hardly. For example, I give you the clean air inspection in Ontario.What a total joke. If your car fails, you just have to throw a certain amount of money at it trying to fix it and if it still doesn't pass, okay, well you tried. Keep driving your smogger "provisionally" of course you have no money left to gas it up. Just a bloody boondoogle. StuK
YES! It was operator error plain and simple. That simple fix, you think needed because an adult was irresponsible, would bug me because I hate those lift to close switches. Why should I be punished because of someone else's irresponsible act? I miss lawn darts and 3-wheelers, both of which are now non existent because someone else was irresponsible. I keep asking, what's next?
"Stuart&Janet" wrote
Making the switch lift up instead of push down would be so trivial a cost change that we could call it 0. Recessing the switch would also be trivial.
It's irrelevant to the post he replied to, as I never suggested government regulations.
"Chief Wiggum" wrote
Did you read the article? Not all of the accidents were small children. One mentioned was a 15 year old who was strangled when he accidentally pressed the button when he was standing outside the car, reaching in for something.
Everything that used to be fun is either illegal or will cause a lawsuit. Stupidity used to be ridiculed, now it's a reason to blame someone else and get rich. Things that were risky are now not even a possibility due to lawyers. Someone might get hurt, we might get sued.
I personally agree... change the switch design and get it over with. Cheap and effective. Mike was exaggerating the circumstances though. Each year someone injures themselves with their hand out the window while travelling by something flying through the air. Should the windows be made to not go down while driving? Cheap to implement... $5-10 worth of electronics necessary. Each year lots of people kill themselves going way too fast... and take others with them. Should the cars be made to only have enough power to haul themselves around at 40 MPH uphill and be speed limited there? That'd be free to implement too - change a computer setting. The point was, where does it end? The more people sue, the more the lawyers restrict our ability to make a choice and deal with the consequences. Years ago, a lot of these people would have fallen victim to Darwin's most popular theory, now they're rich people pretending to be injured. McDonalds gets sued for hot coffee and making kids fat. Don't dump the coffee in your lap, and take your kids to Subway, or better yet... *cook them some food your damn self.*
I personally think you should be able to be found stupid in a court by a jury, in which case you have to pay the court costs and then, in the case of person vs. person (think tripping on a crack in the sidewalk because you were too lazy to pay attention) you have to pay what you were hoping to get out of this person. In the case of person vs. company (McDonalds) you should have to pay the court costs and then make a public statement of apology. If more people were found stupid, we wouldn't have a lot of this BS.
I understand the laws are there to protect us, but they've gotten distorted so badly by people out to make a quick buck for nothing that now they work against everyone. Makes me wanna sue the idiot that took her kids to McDonalds claiming she thought it was healthy for making me ill every time I heard the story. Pain and suffering. Could claim I couldn't eat at McDonalds anymore, scarring me for life. Maybe they'll even back me up. I'll take whatever she got, and she can pay the court costs. At least that would be original.
Sorry... stupid people annoy me sometimes. Other times I keep them around for amusement and a self confidence boost. This also wasn't a shot at anyone who's posted in this thread.... just the morons who come up with stuff like this.
JS
It's not ridiculous. It's spot on. Personally, I'm not against improving anything that needs improving but don't assume to tell me what I'm for and against. . Where is there "no cost to" me? If I buy a car I'm damn sure I paid for everything on it ( and more) Design/engineering/manufacturing/legal/ advertising/shipping/profit/fees and taxes, it's all in there. Hidden safety features costs are all "hidden" in there. Sort of like insurance, you pay for all the things in there that you may never use. But pay you do.
I'm just sick of people blaming a piece of equipment for their ignorance, negligence or laziness. If it is used improperly it may hurt or kill them or others, it's that simple. You brush my argument off as "ridiculous" but some of those children died in seconds. In those seconds someone's life changed immeasurably forever. I'm not callous. It is surely a tragedy but it's behaviour that needs to be modified more than the equipment, else for that momentary lapse in thought, reason or logic some people will spend the rest of there life in regret. StuK
"Stuart&Janet" wrote
If you're seriously comparing recessing a button to making a jigsaw out of foam rubber, then we probably don't need to continue this thread.
Oh. From your post, it sounded like you were against the proposed change. Was I wrong?
advertising/shipping/profit/fees and
Of course. But the suggested change (reversing the toggle or recessing the button), is so trivial that I'd be stunned to find out it added anything when spread out over the cost of Ford's product line.
it's that simple.
Well, sure. But in some cases (like this one) fatal misuse can be made more difficult.
Wrong. Do you have any idea how much tooling costs are to make a new switch? The entire mechanics of the switch would change, how it works, etc.
That's an easy a couple hundred thousand in tooling cost.
Matter of fact, I actually just designed the mechanics for a dimmer lightswitch for houses. I'm estimating tooling costs to be about..200k for that thing.
Stephan
It can take a considerable sum to develop a new switch and create all the tooling etc.
Bad example and written incorrectly at that. (electronic ignition replaced points, should be electric start) The same usage ease that you cite for electric starter motors could be applied to push button power window switches. Some people find the push button type easier to use. (like me)
Ok at what point do get your hand off the button?
1) oh that doesn't feel good. 2) ouch that f*@!ing hurts! 3) Hard.... to.... breath... 4) dead.Seriously, this sounds like the death that was declared sucide where the guy was hit in the head with a hammer 80 times.
MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.