Ford chief seeks help from Toyota

Actually only GM, Ford, Honda and Nissan sell vehicles that are made in America with an 'American' content of over 70% that exhibit a '1' as the first number of the VIN. The others only assemble some of their vehicles in America with an 'American' content of less than 70% and display '4' and '5' in the VIN. Those with a '5,' as the first number of the VIN like the Tundra, have less than 40% 'American' content.

mike

Reply to
Mike Hunter
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Mike,

I got your point and am glad you made it. When the argument was made I thought they were saying Toyota outsold for the year. Very confusing how this statement was made at the end of the year to begin with.

Nick

Reply to
Nicholas Anthony

I dont think America would allow that to happen. Ford is an Icon that shows each and every one of us that we can make it if we work hard and try.

Nick

Reply to
Nicholas Anthony

I don't see America doing anything special to help Ford or GM. Pan Am and Eastern were icons too. Unless Ford can turn around fast, I see the bankruptcy court being involved in Ford's fate. Plus, the problems that Chrysler had in the 80s were differnet than what Ford has now, I think (I don't recall what they were - I was young back then). Another difference is that Toyota builds about 1/2 their cars in the US. Most of the US-built cars have mostly US parts (no US car has enough US content to be called "Made in America," however, according to FTC standards).

Think about other American icons that have slipped recently. IBM comes to mind. They invented the IBM-compatible PC, but don't make any after selling their PC division to a Chinese company.

Reply to
Jeff

IMO big difference here. First off there were many other American Airline industries. Next we are talking about manufacturing not just someone providing transportation. At one time Ford was helping build Tanks and other vehicles for the Military. If we lose that capability totally who would we trust an ally to make it for us? Might as well expect them to fight for us too, yah right. I see Ford as a greatly undervalued stock as it is also a pick for one of next years great investments. Comparing Chrysler without being able to make a point for either one of us is pretty silly, I was young too. :) I do remember Lee Iacocca made a promise to pay back the government and he did just so with plenty of profits for the company as well when he retired. Which reminds me. Chrysler has been under Daimler now and they are doing poorly as well. You would think that they would employ the same principles that makes one great to their new acquisition. I forget the standard they set to call a vehicle "Made in America." I just find it hard to believe that as you say "no" US car has enough US parts to be called "Made in America." I bet Bob Hope is rolling around in his grave, sigh. Whats wrong with this country anyway? No more proud to be American in the media. We allow immigrants to sneak in illegally and others to economically pick us apart with no safety net for the American worker. I love our country and just want to say, God Bless America!!!!!!!

Nick

P.S. Lee Iacocca for President! of Ford that is. :)

Reply to
Nicholas Anthony

You mean like Toyota, Honda, Nissan, VW and Mercedes, all of which make cars in the US?

Providing transportation provides jobs.

And at one time, the airlines were moving soldiers around and move mail around.

Gee, I don't know, the people who already build tanks. Who made planes during the war? IBM.

Then buy it.

According to the FTC, it means a product advertised as Made in USA be "all or virtually all" made in the U.S. In other words, Made in the USA means built in the USA of components all made in the USA.

A lot of the components in cars are made the car makers outside the US, like in Canada, Mexico or Asia. If the electronics come from outside the US, and everything else is from inside the US, you've lost the right to say, "Made in the USA."

No car meets this standard.

Here are some examples of "Made in the US" claims that did not make it:

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Why?

What is great about this country is that this country is part of the world and the world economy.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff

Car makers do not make this claim. They only have to state the percentage of parts that are of US or Canada origin and where the engine and transmission came from.

If you are going to post this info from the FTC site, you should at least read all of what it says. What you are writing applies to those things other than textiles and autos. Different products have different labeling requirements. Some are voluntary and some are mandatory.

Reply to
Mark Jones

I know car makers do not claim "Made in America." That is because they can't according to FTC rules.

You're mixing apples and oranges. One requirement is the requirement that car makers state percent of American content and the other where the engine and transmission came from.

If any manufacturer wants to claim that an item is "Made in the US," all or virtually all of the parts have to be made in the US.

One is a reporting requirement for all cars. Another is a requirement that specifies what "Made in the USA" means to use that or similar labeling.

The FTC has this to say about this: "American Automobile Labeling Act - Requires that each automobile manufactured on or after October 1, 1994, for sale in the U.S. bear a label disclosing where the car was assembled, the percentage of equipment that originated in the U.S. and Canada, and the country of origin of the engine and transmission. Any representation that a car marketer makes that is required by the AALA is exempt from the Commission's policy. When a company makes claims in advertising or promotional materials that go beyond the AALA requirements, it will be held to the Commission's standard. For more information, call the Consumer Programs Division of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (202-366-0846)." Source:

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Reply to
Jeff

Actually IBM made rifles during the war. Sounds funny till you understand the tooling machines they already had making parts for cash registers and scales.

Reply to
samstone

"Industries"?

Companies, yes. And many fewer now than there were then. There are about to be even fewer as the US Airline industry continues its consolidation into three major companies, just as the auto industry did years ago. The US Government created the environment for consolidation by deregulation of the airlines in the '70's. And if we don't keep a close eye on the bastards in D.C., they will let foreigners buy our airlines as they are buying our auto companies.

"...[S]omeone providing transportation." Now that's funny! I shudder to think you might also put the railroads and shipping in that same category of insignificance.

Everything in the US economy is related in some way -- in this modern era, everything in the world economy is related. Wages will naturally seek a common level. So you better learn to do a job few others can do if you want to gain an income few others enjoy. Yes, the dominance of the US is coming to an end, but that is inevitable.

The answer is to become more competitive than we have been. In other words, get off your lazy asses, Americans, and work for what you want. Or we all go down together.

Jack

Reply to
Jack

You're correct. I mistakenly thought they made planes too. I guess TJ Watson, Jr., flying generals around Europe was enough. They also made the accounting machines that help track soldiers and money and stuff for the War Department (in both the US and Germany), and greatly helped the war effort this way as well as their computing machinery helped developed the atomic bombs.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff

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Good info about 'made in the USA'.

Reply to
Mac Cool

Are these American? Is it in the best interest of our govt to save VW? Sure they may be made in America as well but they are not American owned their loyalty is to their own country.

You missed the point. From a Government standpoint you would need to maintain some manufacturing. Boeing would compare to Ford in regard to the point I am making and just as I am suggesting the govt should protect Ford they should protect Boeing.

Good point but as long as you have the capability to manufacture airplanes the Military could very well move troops and mail around under dire circumstances. You are missing the point I am trying to make. Protecting manufacturing otherwise you wont have the capability to move a thing.

Just look at what transpired during WWII. The assistance of many manufacturing companies were needed. God forbid that ever happens again.

Sold.

They are percentages not as vague as you make it sound.

Bob Hope used to do many Made in the USA commercials promoting US products. He used to do many entertaining shows for the troops. He was a great man very pro USA.

OMG. So many things wrong with that statement. For starters you just gave up your individual identity. We are great because of our foundation, our beliefs. We had good work ethics. Cared for our own as well as our allies. Being apart of the World and the economy means nothing as just existing would make you apart of the world and economy.

Reply to
Nicholas Anthony

Thanks for correcting me. I am trying to figure out if I was trying to say American Airliners in the industry or what else lol.

You are taking things out of context. The opening argument I made was that the govt should intervene to save the Automotive industry. Someone replied they shouldnt and used examples of other companies the US let go wayside. My argument was if we allow our manufacturing to fail we lose out in a bigger way.

Working harder isn't the answer. Many people I know work up to 3 or 4 jobs to make ends meat. The govt isn't protecting Americans rather corporations and foreign interests. In this environment you can work harder and when you burn out you get replaced. If you finally reach a certain level you get replaced by someone for less money too. My brother works for the FAA in the IT field. They are talking about releasing all IT and having someone from India assist over the phone with their problems. Even if that threat fails they fire all the old workers and hire new people at lower wages. Their is no stability in America on any level. Strange times we live in sadly.

Nick

Reply to
Nicholas Anthony

No so, the requirement to exhibit a '1' as the first number of the VIN and be made in the US and is to have at least a 70% US content. Content is more than the sum of the parts, it includes everything for R&D, engineering design, origin of the steel, plastics, tires assembly etal, to make the vehicle. If the content is less than 70%, but more than 40%, the first digit assigned is a '4.' If the content is below 40% the first digit is a '5.' A vehicle could theoretically have zero US content but still have a '5' if it is assembled in the US.

If you look at most of what GM and Ford sell, as well as the Accord, Titan, or the vehicles made in the GM/Toyota plant in California for example you will see a '1' The Camry, Sienna and even a few Ford made trucks on the other hand exhibit '4' The Tundra a '5' Because of a complaint to the FTC by Honda, Toyota no longer says made in America in their ads. They now say assembled in America of world sourced parts

mike

Reply to
Mike Hunter

One of the problems may be that statistics show only around 1.4% of working Americans belong to a union today, and unfortunately most that do work for the government. Another problem is Americans will buy something without regard to where it is made. One can rationalize their reasons for doing so but if you are not going to buy most of things made in your own county, as the Japanese tend to do, then there we be fewer jobs in you own country. Americans complain if a corporation buy from a low wage county, with fewer costly government regulations and fewer lawyer, to save money, then we turn around and do the exactly same thing ourselves as consumers. We can not have it both ways.. I seems the only thing our grand children well need to know it how to say 'Welcome to Wal-Mart' or 'Do you want fries with that?' If we don't buy more American made products we will have only ourselves to blame. ;)

mike

Reply to
Mike Hunter

Some day this urban legend will die, but I doubt it, any more than claims of

200 mpg carburetors for big blocks have died away.. All the first number does is tell where the damn thing was assembled. It doesn't have a thing to do with content. if toyota ships a camry in pieces to the US and then assembles it here, it gets a 1 or a 4. Every piece could be Japanese manufactured and it will still get a 1 or a 4. Just like vehicles assembled in Mexico get a 3, or Japan get a J or England an S.

Whitelightning

Reply to
Whitelightning

On Thu, 04 Jan 2007 10:32:58 -0500, Mike Hunter rearranged some electrons to form:

The 1st digit of the VIN does not designate anything about the parts content.

You were wrong before, Mike, and you're still wrong.

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Reply to
David M

Why do you keep on with this? It simply isn't so...

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"The first digit identifies the nation of origin. If the car was assembledfrom parts produced in different countries, this digit reflects the nationwhere the car was assembled. Some larger nations are split into regions. Forexample, cars built in Japan are assigned a J in the first digit. But carsmade in the U.S. can have a 1, 4 or 5, depending on the region of itsassembly. "

You might also look at

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and show us where it mentions the first digit in the VIN is dependent on domestic parts content. (Hint: it doesn't!!)

Reply to
Matt Macchiarolo

That may be want to believe and you are correct when you say vehicles assembled in Mexico get a '3' and Japan a "I." Even the Camrys that have a "J" display a NA Content label of something like 70% and the complete vehicle is made of parts from all over the far east. Like all other counties they have only one number assigned, just as the vehicles made in Canada by US and Japanese manufactures, of US or other imported parts get a '2.' If what you believe to be true, was actually true, there would be only one number for the US as well, a '1.'

Actually the Camry you described would get a '5,' less than 40% US content. The only Toyota vehicles assembled in the US that get a '1' are those made in the GM/California plant where the UAW contract requires 70 & US content

mike

Reply to
Mike Hunter

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