Ford chief seeks help from Toyota

You are somewhat correct, the first number of the VIN designates country of origin. The different numbers assigned, 1, 4 and 5 is determined by US content.

mike

Looks like you may have finally stumbled on the explanation you seek. The reason the Lincoln LT has a 4 and the F150 a 1, although they both built on the same assemble line, is the US content of the LT falls slightly below 70%

mike

On the contrary nothing posted has shown the assignment of the first digit of VIN 1, 4 and 5 to be for anything but US content. If you believe that is wrong, show us ;)

mike

Prove it.

Think about it. The fact two vehicles assembled in the same plant can have different numbers proves it has to do with content. If not it would not only be the LT, but some of the F150s as well, that would exhibit a 4 ;)

mike

Since when is 80% "Slightly below 70%"?

BTW, the 2006 Lincoln Mark LT has a VIN that begins with 5, so according to what you say, it should be "slightly below 40%."

Jeff

Hold it. You have made this claim many times before. You back it up.

Jeff

I did my homework, like finding that a Lincoln Mark LT has a VIN that starts with '5' which you say is less than 40% US content, while it actually has

80% US content. Oopsie, you're wrong again.

So show us the web site that shows you are correct.

The US Code that requires that VINs be on cars is available on the web. Where does it say that US content has anything to do with the VIN?

Put up or shut up.

Jeff

content was never mentioned here , i didn't bother lookingfor SAE site . Maybe you can and post the content ratioslink.

The LT has a 5.

Could it be that different makes have different WMI (world manufacturer ids)? And Lincoln wouldn't have been assigned a WMI for trucks because they didn't make trucks until the last 5 or 10 years, when they started coming out with trucks (SUVs)?

In fact, this is what it is. Each of the manufacturers have a different WMI. Look at the bottom table on this page:

You'll see that each vehicle type (Lincoln SUV, Ford Passenger car, etc.) has its own WMI. The WMIs have nothing to do vehicle content. They are assigned by an organization in the US (I think SAE). If you are correct about VINs, there would be 3 VINs for each type of vehicle (depending on content), not just one.

I propose the following bet: Right after Easter, we meet at the NYC auto show. It should be easy to confirm whether or not the content reported on the stickers has anything to do with VINs or not. The loser buys lunch at Dallas BBQ or Red Lobster (I think I will have a coupon for you to save you money at Red Lobster) or another resteraunt we agree on. We can also take the subway to Chinatown or Little Italy. It will be nice to meet an nice perosn with whom I have talked with on the internet in person and put a face with the typing. And we can post our picture together on the internet.

Jeff

Jeff

Obviously the US content has dropped in some of the LTs, if what you say is true. I know some Aviators have had a 5 as well, in the past. Ford has been getting more stuff out of it factories in Mexico and Canada, because of the lower cost there, thus reducing the US content.

The '80%' you are referencing is the NA 'parts' content label. Imported parts can be listed on the NAP label if the final assemble in NA. That is how Toyota get to say the Camry and others show a NAP label of 80% yet must say 'assembled in America of world sourced parts' in their ads

mike

The VIN list the manufacture as well as the divisions and truck have a different body designations than cars . You can try here

but You may need a password to log on. No, I will not give you mine if you do.

What makes you think I would ever ride in the NYC subway? Keep searching and you will find what I found ;)

mike

No need. Not giving out your password is a very good idea. I don't even give my password to my family. Of course, if you knew my family, you wouldn't give out passwords to them, either.

On page two of that document, it lists the meaning of the WMI. It doesn't mention content.

Fine, we can walk to a restaurant in Times Square or take a taxi (they use Ford Crown Vics). You can park in the Port Authority Bus Terminal Garage. All those places are within walking distance if you're up to it.

I think you are afraid to take the challange.

From the US code that requires VINs: The first section shall consist of three characters that occupy positions one through three (1-3) in the VIN. This section shall uniquely identify the manufacturer, make and type of the motor vehicle if its manufacturer produces 500 or more motor vehicles of its type annually. If the manufacturer produces less than 500 motor vehicles of its type annually, these characters along with the third, fourth and fifth characters of the fourth section shall uniquely identify the manufacturer, make and type of the motor vehicle. These characters are assigned in accordance with §565.7(a).

Don't you think it would mention content if the first character had anything to do with content?

And here is an intersting article that mentions that we are running out of VINs that start with 5.

Jeff

Sorry, it was sent accidently before this was pasted:

This indicates that the reason why 4 and 5 were added as the first digit of the VIN is that we ran out of 1s, then 4s, and now we are getting short of

5s. Content has nothing to do with it.

This is the last time I am going to respond to you in this thread, unless you can actually provide a real link that actually works. I am wasting my time. And, at your age, you don't have much time either.

Jeff

I'm sure you have proof that the US content of the LT falls below 70% and the US content of the F150 is above 80% beyond the alleged first digit designation.

You made the claim, you back it up. Nothing you or anyone else posted confirms your claims.

You're making a cyclical argument, based on the premise that your original claim is correct, which you have provided NO documentation other than "because I said so."

I'm with you, Jeff. But I don't think Mike is going to change his feeble mind.

If I find myself at the Detroit auto show this month I will make a note of the VIN's and domestic content of the cars I look at and post them here. It opens to the public next Sunday.

I will do the same at the NYC show. I wish Mike would join me, though. While I disagree with him on this issue as well as who is #2 in US auto sales, he seems to be a nice gentleman who likes cars. I should be fun meeting him and seeing the cars with him (or any other member of the newsgroup).

Jeff