Insurance co.s out to KILL cars like Mustang

I dunno Rich. My 93GT costs me about $1,500/year Canadian with $2M liability and $500 collision. Maybe people need to buy the older cars... The insurance savings alone will buy some serious performance.

Brad S

Here in Finland my 1966 V8 Mustang insurance cost is 450 euros (about

570USD). Then there is bonus system here too that reduces cost as much as 70% in best (if you have accident free 10 years) And car is on a garage without insurance cost about half of year because of hard winter.

That's good news, bad is that overall car tax and gas prices are here way much higher than U.S. & Canada.

-AK

Rich,

Have you shopped around? With a clean record (no tickets or claims) you should be able to do much better than $6K!

I'm in Calgary and I pay less than $1500/yr

$800/ year at 45yrs of age for a 2000GT mustang Montreal-Canada

$80 a month for liability only on my parents plan with me as primary driver.

17y/o with 95 v6

Buy a beater and insure it as your primary vehicle. $75 per month in insurance for it and my new 2003 GT. I bought the 89 escort for $500 15 months ago. It has paid for itself including keeping the stang off the roads in the crappy weather. Funny thing is, it gets about the same gas mileage as the V8 ~23mpg. John

Funny you mention this, you are right. When I asked one insurance hack why my 1993 LX cost only $2300 to insure versus $5000 for my 2001 GT (given their latest thing to blame is soft-tissue injuries and that they claim vehicle value is far less important) the insurer had no tangible answer.

-Rich

That's Calgary. Here's what the latest insurance person told me:

1. 00 is a GOOD deal now.
2. If you live in North York (older area of Toronto) you pay almost

1/3 more than Mississauga (younger area, 20 miles to the West). Owing to traffic/accident rate differences.

1. Ontario insurance provisions are the most comprehensive on the planet.
2. Ontario health plan won't cover costs of accidents; They want the insurers to pay for most of it and more people are spending a year going to chiropractors and physiotherapists and this is a relatively new thing.

In truth, I believe insurance costs are very high where I live for a couple of reasons that the insurers cannot disclose, but have alluded to. About a year ago, there was a massive scam where people where bribing transportation officials to grant licences to people who failed tests. The estimate is that several thousand people living in the North Toronto area were part of it. Second, insurance accident fraud is WAY up in this area. Both these incidences are related to the business practices people have brought with them from other countries where bribery and fraud are rampant. The insurers (2 of who independently said this to me) are finding it very hard to combat these problem, a problem you do not see in areas other than Toronto.

But it is getting serious. During the holiday season, they nabbed more people for driving without insurance than ever before.

My complaint I guess is the typical one of someone caught in this; Why should I help subsidize the bad driving or criminality of others when my record is absolutely clean? That is probably the biggest objection you'll find to the "no fault" insurance we have in Ontario.

-Rich

This sounds intriguing. Our stats are similar. Who is your insurer?

-Rich

It's like the last years of the late 1960s muscle cars all over again.

Welcome to Toronto Canada where a six-star (perfect) driving record nets you the bargain insurance rate of $6000/yr on any V8 Mustang! That's $4500 U.S. If you are 22 or so years old, tack on another $4500. Meanwhile (according to the Highway Traffic Safety Association) cars with worse injury/collision/theft records (Mustang has dropped precipitously in the theft dept since the introduction of ignition kill systems) are quoted at less dollars. How does $3200 for an Acura sound when it's theft rate is

10 TIMES what the Mustang's is? Or the Ford Explorer which was dropped by one rental car company for it's horrific crash rate and is guaranteed to kill you in a roll over, the insurance rate is lower than a Mustang V8.

Here is the horrifying thing; You can buy/lease/insure a Jaguar for...the same price as a Mustang V8!!! That's a car that costs more than 2x as much!

If you are one of the lucky people living in a rural U.S. State where you still pay under $1000 for a new Mustang's insurance, be very happy about it.

So what drives the rates? Besides the B.S. insurance bureaus it must be all those 18 year olds who go buy new GTs. Oh wait; You need an income of around $80,000 to afford that at their insurance rates. I guess the insurance companies will have to think up a new excuse to replace that one.

-Rich

Damn , I am soooooooo happy I live in the USA , Remind me never to maove to Canada , That is outraageous !!!!!!!

As if us car guys and gals don't have enough bills , Right ?

Bob G

snipped-for-privacy@rogers.com (Richard) wrote

Because that's what insurance IS. Insurance pools the risk. To generalize, insurance adds up the costs of all claims and their related transaction costs, and divides that total by the number of policyholders. Each policyholder then pays enough in premiums to enable the insurance companies to maintain sufficient reserves to cover all the claims, plus a reasonable margin of safety. It's built into the system that the policyholders who never make a claim subsidize the stupidity (or corruption) of those who do.

That's the system in the ideal. In the concrete, the insurance companies make bad investments which reduce their reserves below the margin of safety. Who do they turn to for the difference? The policyholder. Who else?

180 Out TS 28

Actually, it's more "pooling" than before. We have what is called, "no fault" insurance that essentially avoids blame by factoring out police investigations except where damage exceeds a certain amount or injury is involved. So, good drivers here do even more "subsidizing" than before. Right now, if damage is under a certain $ amount, you don't call the police, you simply go to an accident report centre and tell them what happened. No blame is assessed.

-Rich

The REASON insurance rates are high for 18 year olds is BECAUSE they tend to crash into things and kill and/or maim people with higher than normal frequency. This is because of lack of driving skills or stupid recklessness.. or a combination of the two, and insurance companies pay out BIG bucks making things right after their crashes. Since insurance companies have to cover their costs, they charge 18 year olds accordingly. And those 18 year olds with known bad driving records pay a LOT more.. IF they can even get insurance.

Personally, I think this is the fairest way to do things. Those that cause the problem pay to clean it up.

LJH

95GT

Note: "18 year old" is the generic term to young driver in this response.

personally, I think 16-18 year olds are the minority in the "big" insurance picture,and are less a factor compared to EVERYBODY else that drives. This is just my opinion, but I would like to see THE numbers to prove or disprove either theory.

winze, father of a soon to be 16 year old.

snipped-for-privacy@law.com (winze) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com:

The numbers are the reason for the rates. Statistics and probability are the basis for insurance. I'm sure your insurance company can provide you with all the numbers you'll ever want to see.

Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

no doubt! but it's like being convicted before the crime,IMO

No different than paying higher flood insurance rates because you live beside a river. You may never be flooded but the guy on the hill will pay a lot less. It's all about probabilities.

LJH

95GT

Of course, if you think your son is a great and responsible driver, you can take on most of the risk yourself and cut your insurance costs very significantly. Just drop your collision coverage and get only the minimum liability insurance your state requires. If you're convinced and willing to assume the substantial financial risk, bet on your son. If you're right, you can save some money. If you're wrong, your family could be in for very serious financial and legal trouble. It's your bet if you want to take it.

Insurance companies are not willing to take that bet.

LJH

95GT