Mustang Kicks A Goat. News At Eleven.

And both are still flourishing in the hands of enthusiasts. Wonder if the same will be true of these two cars (GTO and Mustang) in 15-20 years?

///Mike TS #63

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote in news:1102989064.606776.306160 @f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

Mustang

Because they've used stupid categories in the past still doesn't make it legit. It's simply an excuse to make "their" car win. It's got absolutely no useful value in a comparo.

So what criteria did they use to make it a 10-Best Winner? I'm not saying the Mustang shouldn't be one, I'm just wondering why the Mustang ended up in there and the GTO didn't. Personally, I'd think price has something to do with it, not performance.

deliever a

As Michael already said in another post, the last sentence says it all. They had their minds already made up, and they needed to justify the Mustang win.

Utter nonsense:

a) They themselves admitted that they were "seduced" into making the Mustang the winner.

b) Any test with a "Gotta have it factor" category is suspect.

A "straight up test" is one where subjective input is kept to a minimum. This comparo was anything but. It was more of an opinion, which is fine. Just don't call it a test.

If you omit the bullshit, it did.

It did. You keep dragging the "Gotta have it factor" into the mix.

Ah, now there's another story. I could've had a GN but I bought a Bronco II instead. I'm still kicking myself over that one... ;)

Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

Dinsdale wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Mustang

Good enough reason. It certainly looks better...

Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (TurboMike) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@mb-m13.aol.com:

Hell, we'll probably all be riding around in electric bubble cars that drive themselves in 20 years...

Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

Jesus I hope not. What fun would that be?

///Mike TS #63

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (TurboMike) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@mb-m13.aol.com:

None at all. I'll probably be pushin' up daisies at that point anyway... ;)

Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

Yeah, me too. And CJ too. Imagine how HE would react :-)

///Mike TS #63

I agree with their conclusion after reading the article. But this newsgroup post is actually slanted a little toward the GTO, because Patrick did leave out some objective numbers where the Mustang wasn't "soundly" beat:

Mustang GT GTO

base price $24,995 $33,500 roadholding (g) 0.89 0.88 lane change (mph) 64.7 62.9

plus there are other smaller factors too, such as the GTO requires 92 octane, while the Mustang gets by with 87.

As discussed here already, the "gotta-have-it" factor gave the Mustang the win, but doesn't everyone agree with that? How else do we explain that Ford is selling as many Mustangs per month as the GTO sells in a year? Even GM diehards cringe when discussing the looks of the GTO.

Bill J.

-95 GT

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (TurboMike) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@mb-m13.aol.com:

LOL! Speaking of BBA, I'd love to get a bucket-T street rod with a blown 460 or something before I kick. I suffered from cubic inch deprivation as a child.

Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

"Bill Jones" wrote in news:JMtvd.8683$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com:

Now there's the _real_ winning category for the Mustang.

As this depends on the driver, it's pretty subjective. For that matter, so is stuff like "steering feel" or whatever the hell they called it.

It's an LS2 with 100 more horsepower fercrissakes. ;)

No. Later this year when there are a gazillion '05s on the road, the "gotta have it factor" will be all but gone. Witness the PT Cruiser and it's "gotta have it factor".

The Mustang's been in the public's face since '65; a fraction of people who know what a Mustang is know what a GTO is.

There is that. But I, for one, could easily overlook that for the LS2. That's one of the baddest motors being made today.

Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

Too nose heavy for my tastes. Give me a late-model aluminum block engine for motivation...

Patrick '93 Cobra '83 LTD

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote in news:1103075669.222251.267560 @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:

Picky! ;)

Actually, either would be fun..

Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

Joe,

To your comments, I answer with this.

LS1 Camaro or Bullett Mustang?

While the track numbers suggest the Camaro is the easy choice, the choice isn't that easy, is it?

C&D's view is there's more to picking an "everyday winner" than raw track numbers.

Patrick '93 Cobra '83 LTD

To answer someone else's question. "Steering feel" is how communicative the steering is... or how much road feel is transmitted up to your mitts. In other words, does the steering wheel feel like an old video game dial, or when steering can you feel the pavement under the tires.

Joe wrote:

reasons

justify

Joe,

To your comments, I answer with this.

LS1 Camaro or Bullett Mustang?

While the track numbers suggest the Camaro is the easy choice, the choice isn't that easy, is it?

C&D's view is there's more to picking an "everyday winner" than raw track numbers.

Patrick '93 Cobra '83 LTD

To answer someone else's question. "Steering feel" is how communicative the steering is... or how much road feel is transmitted up to your mitts. In other words, does the steering wheel feel like an old video game dial, or when steering can you feel the pavement under the tires.

reasons

justify

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote in news:1103079749.071876.240230 @c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

Easy - Bullit. ;) The LS1 is simply wonderful, but the Camaro is a POS.

Knowing what we know about the Camaro, it's very easy to say the Camaro is the loser. The LS1 simply isn't worth putting up with the rest of the car, and the Bullit is simply a great car all around. Winner: Bullit.

However, the GTO vs. Mustang is a totally different comparison. The GTO is a much better car than the Camaro ever was. Except for its looks (and arguably price), there are no obvious weak points to the GTO; the LS2 is simply the icing on the cake. The Mustang is certainly a great car also, but if you keep price and looks out of the mix, the GTO wins hands down. If you throw price in, it's a tossup - you get what you pay for. Looks are totally subjective and have no real bearing on reliability, performance, or handling.

Granted, but I don't need them to tell me how bad my yen for the car is by totaling points for it. I consider their view to be "spoonfeeding".

When you get right down to it, the Mustang and GTO shouldn't even be compared to each other. They're two different cars in two different leagues with two different price ranges. Right now the Mustang has no direct competitor from GM; the GTO has no direct competitor from Ford.

Thinking about this, it's very interesting that among the three American makers, there is very little "direct" competition. Each maker has their own car or truck for which the other two makers don't have a direct competitor.

Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

transmitted

factor".

opinion,

Well then, using that logic you might as well throw out the acceleration and braking numbers too because they are subjective.

Maybe, but the comparison isn't concerned with the future - it's about now. Right now, the Mustang wins the "gotta-have-it-factor" hands down, and like you say, that's why there will be a gazillion '05s on the road pretty soon.

-Bill J.

"Bill Jones" wrote in news:wX6wd.8945$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com:

Sorry Bill, but I disagree. Acceleration and braking can be pretty much nailed down, given a static environment (i.e., weather, road/track conditions, elevation, etc.).

Again, I disagree. To me, a comparison should help answer the question "Which car would I rather buy?", based on objective observations and measurements. Stuff like "Gotta have it factor" is really "Which car do the testers think is more popular?". That's why I wondered why they didn't have a "Chick Magnet" category. That certainly would've helped the Mustang as well.

Can't argue with you there!

Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

Not meaning to argue with you Joe, more like playing Devil's Advocate, but why can't roadholding around a skidpad be nailed down in the same way that acceleration and braking can? Why is that subjective, but acceleration and braking aren't?

Are you surprised that the Stang beat the Goat in these categories, or just dismissing it more or less because you feel it's subjective?

btw, the magazine text says, "In objective handling tests, the Mustang beat out the GTO." But then in the next two paragraphs, they go on to explain why they declared the Goat the handling winner, based on their subjective feel.

As far as my own feelings about the '05 GT, I finally drove one today for the first time! I went to a local dealer to see a Satin Silver 5-speed he had on the lot. I asked if I could listen to the Shaker 500 stereo, and he asked if I wanted to drive it. OKAY! We drove for maybe 20 minutes or so over some back roads and city streets. The car only had 66 miles on it, so I never went more than half throttle or over 4000 rpm, even though the salesman more or less encouraged me to. I really just wanted to get a sense of the handling and feel of the car. I've read some reviews that said the steering is too light, but I didn't think so at all. In fact I thought the steering was incredible! Much quicker than my 95 GT - it felt a lot like the 2001 BMW 330Ci I recently test drove as far as steering and road feel. It's quite a bit more firm than my '95 too, but then I'm sure my car is a bit softer now than when it was new. But I liked the firmness. A lot.

I didn't buy the '05, but came close. I still think I want to stick to my original plan and wait for winter to be over here in New England before I finally say goodbye to the '95 and hello to an '05. ;-)

-Bill J.

The road holding and lane change results should be just as valid as the acceleration and braking numbers. Tests performed by the same individuals driving the same cars over the same course, then averaged, *should* reflect the vehicles capabilities.

While I have not as yet driven an '05 GT, the '04 GTO (same suspension as the '05) plowed pretty badly when cornering. I had the GTO for a 48 hour "test drive" and put it through its paces for over 300 miles. As delivered, it certainly isn't a corner carver. The lane change test seems to demonstrate that the car doesn't like to be tossed around, I agree with the test results on that point.

When the '05 GTOs have languished on the lots for 6 months or so, I'll have to finagle an extended test drive in one to compare to the '04. :) The LS2 is pretty sweet. __ John C. '03 Cobra Convt.