Okay gearheads, need some advice. (again) lol

High elevation means your best deal is to go with a blower. Simple bolt-ons won't make up for the loss of nearly 20% of your horsepower you're losing at that altitude. Trust me, I lived/raced in Albuquerque (5,300 feet) for 8 years.

Patrick '93 Cobra

subs, and timing bump. All the usual little things.

Rockies where the air is thin), the car was a real dog. Well, not a dog, but just not what you expect when you see the 5.0 on the side of a Mustang.

and I'd like your thoughts.

Ford model, and there are no emissions testing where I live. What kind of hp and tq increases would a 9lb give me? And, more importantly, would I have to change the fuel pump and head gaskets, unlike the 6lb. This will just add to the cost, but I'm not sure how much.

5.0 in years... why would you want to do that." Okay, so minus the prick (which also scares the crap out of me) how many hours on the 6 and 9 do you think it would take? Also, thought about this after, if I had a speed shop install it, would that void warranty? Anyone know?

springs and long tubes (again, no emissions). Maybe there would be some money left over for some pulleys.

be more complete. But I can't do both. I do love to corner the car hard (got some really sticky and wide Yokohamas on her) and that's a blast. But I'm wondering if I shouldn't just do the SC while I have the cash, and add other things later. But option #2 is pretty enticing too.

I am not a big fan of the centrifugal blowers because they need to be spun to 5,000 rpm to get any decent power from them. I like the twin screw blows because they are more efficient and will increase horsepower and torque from idle to redline. I have a Kenne Bell Blowzilla/Flowzilla setup on my '89 LX and last time I had it on a dyno it made 460 ft-lbs of torque at the rear wheels at 2,300 rpm. Take my word for it, an engine with a high flat torque curve is a blast to drive. Here's a link you should check out before making a final decision:

BradandBrooks wrote:

Blower, no question. We lose almost 20% of our power just from the altitude. Worse in hot weather. If the blower is tuned correctly, you'll gain that power back and then the power that sea level cars gain. Blower is the best bang for the buck. Go with the 9#. At this altitude, it will be closer to a 6# than 9# power levels.

Okay guys... 3/3 say blower. One says Flowzilla. But, it's $1000 more. I just can't do that.

But I can do a 9lb Ford.

I'm going to go back to SVT and have a talk with a real tech about that 9lb'er.

Thanks guys!

Brad

Blower, no question. We lose almost 20% of our power just from the altitude. Worse in hot weather. If the blower is tuned correctly, you'll gain that power back and then the power that sea level cars gain. Blower is the best bang for the buck. Go with the 9#. At this altitude, it will be closer to a 6# than 9# power levels.

No matter what blower you choose be sure and get a custom tune (i.e. "chip") based on dyno runs with air-fuel ratio reading taken. This is necessary to keep you from running lean which can destroy your engine in the blink of an eye. This is especially important if you are going to run 9 psi. The more boost you run the hotter the intake air and the easier for detonation to occur.

Also, I always say if you can't afford to rebuild your eng> Okay guys... 3/3 say blower. One says Flowzilla. But, it's $1000 more.

Thx.

Well, I can afford a rebuild, truthfully, I just don't want to. lol.

I never got to SVT today. Monday for sure. I'll bring up these points. THX!

Brad

Also, I always say if you can't afford to rebuild your engine then you have no business installing a blower. It takes a lot of money to make horsepower RELIABLY. At 9 psi you should install larger injectors and fuel pump along with the custom tuned chip.

BradandBrooks wrote: > Okay guys... 3/3 say blower. One says Flowzilla. But, it's $1000 more. > I just can't do that. > > But I can do a 9lb Ford. > > I'm going to go back to SVT and have a talk with a real tech about that > 9lb'er. > > Thanks guys! > > Brad > > > ".boB" > wrote in message > news:44b6cfb0$0$30623$ snipped-for-privacy@news.usenetmonster.com... > BradandBrooks wrote: > > I have a 93 GT with pretty low mileage (about 40,000 miles). > > > > It's totally stock with a 5-spd and 2.73s. Oh, I do have an X-pipe, > > exhaust, subs, and timing bump. All the usual little things. > > Blower, no question. We lose almost 20% of our power just from > the altitude. > Worse in hot weather. If the blower is tuned correctly, you'll gain > that power back > and then the power that sea level cars gain. Blower is the best > bang for the buck. > Go with the 9#. At this altitude, it will be closer to a 6# > than 9# power levels. >

subs, and timing bump. All the usual little things.

Rockies where the air is thin), the car was a real dog. Well, not a dog, but just not what you expect when you see the 5.0 on the side of a Mustang.

and I'd like your thoughts.

Ford model, and there are no emissions testing where I live. What kind of hp and tq increases would a 9lb give me? And, more importantly, would I have to change the fuel pump and head gaskets, unlike the 6lb. This will just add to the cost, but I'm not sure how much.

5.0 in years... why would you want to do that." Okay, so minus the prick (which also scares the crap out of me) how many hours on the 6 and 9 do you think it would take? Also, thought about this after, if I had a speed shop install it, would that void warranty? Anyone know?

springs and long tubes (again, no emissions). Maybe there would be some money left over for some pulleys.

be more complete. But I can't do both. I do love to corner the car hard (got some really sticky and wide Yokohamas on her) and that's a blast. But I'm wondering if I shouldn't just do the SC while I have the cash, and add other things later. But option #2 is pretty enticing too.

What point in the power band do you want the power? Would you want to feel full boost at, say, 2000 rpm or would you want the boost to roll on gradually and peak out at about 5000 - 5500? If you answered 2000 rpm then you want a twin screw-type blower like the Kenne Bell. Granted it is quite a bit more money but you know what they say.

BTW the centrifugal blower that Ford sells is a rebadged Powerdyne part; I just did a quick search and found the Powerdyne 9psi unit for $1599 and the FRPP-badged version at $2074 (same retailer).

John

subs, and timing bump. All the usual little things.

Rockies where the air is thin), the car was a real dog. Well, not a dog, but just not what you expect when you see the 5.0 on the side of a Mustang.

and I'd like your thoughts.

Ford model, and there are no emissions testing where I live. What kind of hp and tq increases would a 9lb give me? And, more importantly, would I have to change the fuel pump and head gaskets, unlike the 6lb. This will just add to the cost, but I'm not sure how much.

5.0 in years... why would you want to do that." Okay, so minus the prick (which also scares the crap out of me) how many hours on the 6 and 9 do you think it would take? Also, thought about this after, if I had a speed shop install it, would that void warranty? Anyone know?

springs and long tubes (again, no emissions). Maybe there would be some money left over for some pulleys.

would be more complete. But I can't do both. I do love to corner the car hard (got some really sticky and wide Yokohamas on her) and that's a blast. But I'm wondering if I shouldn't just do the SC while I have the cash, and add other things later. But option #2 is pretty enticing too.

One thing I forgot to add was that the Powerdyne (aka Ford Motorsport brand) units use a belt to drive the impeller which has a tendency to break quite often. Especially on the 9 psi units since they spin faster. It costs about $500 a pop to rebuild them so they may not be as economical as they appear.

Also, you are right about power delivery. I personally don't want to spin the engine to 5,000+ rpm every time I want to get some horsepower. In third gear I can accelerate like I was shot out of a canon from

2,500 rpm to redline. With a centrifugal, in third gear, I would have to be running near 90 mph to be in the power band or be down shifting like a lunatic to keep the boost up. for awhile I had my Kenne Bell blower pullied for 16 psi and right of idle I had all 16 psi available at the slightest blip on the throttle. High rpm horsepower is OK but big torque is what makes driving REALLY fun, IMHO.

Yes they are Powerdynes. I purchased the 6lb kit as a small boost for my car so I don't harm my engine and no oil line taps and its quieter then most. You can find them around the $1500 price check Ebay. They also come with a FMU which saves you a few hundred bucks. If you go for a larger pulley you need a by pass valve and a larger in tank fuel pump. Ask them which head unit you are getting with the kit. The BD11-a is the newer model so make sure that is what you are getting. The next step up is a the XB-1A which can handle upto 18psi and are fine at low levels but cost allot more. IMO I say go for the Ford Powerdyne if money is an issue. Its a great entry way into the world of s/c the belts are rated for 50k miles and you can have it rebuilt down the road for just over $300-500 with kevlar belts and other improvements.

As far as centrifugal vs roots blowers also keep in mind the centrifugal (ex: Powerdyne, Procharger) will be cooler and allow a denser air flow then the roots (ex: Whipple, Kenne Bell). Henceforth you can have the two types of blowers producing 6psi but the centrifugal will give more power cause of the denser air flow. Just some more food for thought.

Nick

BradandBrooks wrote: > I have a 93 GT with pretty low mileage (about 40,000 miles). >

What point in the power band do you want the power? Would you want to feel full boost at, say, 2000 rpm or would you want the boost to roll on gradually and peak out at about 5000 - 5500? If you answered 2000 rpm then you want a twin screw-type blower like the Kenne Bell. Granted it is quite a bit more money but you know what they say.

BTW the centrifugal blower that Ford sells is a rebadged Powerdyne part; I just did a quick search and found the Powerdyne 9psi unit for $1599 and the FRPP-badged version at $2074 (same retailer).

John

John,

Is that really true? And you can get one for $1600? I can get the FRPP for $2000. That;s the cost of a new fuel pump and the gasket. Hmmmm... very interesting.

I would like the low end power, but really, don't you guys find that the 5.0 has enough power from idle to 3,500 rpm? I find it lacks after that. Plus then, does traction become an issue?

I'm starting to get confused here. But that's a good thing - means I'm learning something. :)

Thanks!

Brad

One thing I forgot to add was that the Powerdyne (aka Ford Motorsport brand) units use a belt to drive the impeller which has a tendency to break quite often. Especially on the 9 psi units since they spin faster. It costs about $500 a pop to rebuild them so they may not be as economical as they appear.

Also, you are right about power delivery. I personally don't want to spin the engine to 5,000+ rpm every time I want to get some horsepower. In third gear I can accelerate like I was shot out of a canon from 2,500 rpm to redline. With a centrifugal, in third gear, I would have to be running near 90 mph to be in the power band or be down shifting like a lunatic to keep the boost up. for awhile I had my Kenne Bell blower pullied for 16 psi and right of idle I had all 16 psi available at the slightest blip on the throttle. High rpm horsepower is OK but big torque is what makes driving REALLY fun, IMHO.

True True True. torque is fun!!! I love torque. But I find the 325 or so my 5.0 has is lots (what is the 2006 Vette, 400?) It's the horsepower I want to build. Highway stuff. Am I not reading this right?

So then what is the hp and tq increase from a 6 or a 9lb? Any idea?

And okay, let me ask you another question... :) for the price of the blower, Ford offers heads, rollers, headers a few other pieces that equal the price of the blower and Ford says dynos at 305hp. So, that's about a wash... Pros, cons to this? I'd really like your guys thoughts.

Brad

Yes they are Powerdynes. I purchased the 6lb kit as a small boost for my car so I don't harm my engine and no oil line taps and its quieter then most. You can find them around the $1500 price check Ebay. They also come with a FMU which saves you a few hundred bucks. If you go for a larger pulley you need a by pass valve and a larger in tank fuel pump. Ask them which head unit you are getting with the kit. The BD11-a is the newer model so make sure that is what you are getting. The next step up is a the XB-1A which can handle upto 18psi and are fine at low levels but cost allot more. IMO I say go for the Ford Powerdyne if money is an issue. Its a great entry way into the world of s/c the belts are rated for 50k miles and you can have it rebuilt down the road for just over $300-500 with kevlar belts and other improvements.

As far as centrifugal vs roots blowers also keep in mind the centrifugal (ex: Powerdyne, Procharger) will be cooler and allow a denser air flow then the roots (ex: Whipple, Kenne Bell). Henceforth you can have the two types of blowers producing 6psi but the centrifugal will give more power cause of the denser air flow. Just some more food for thought.

Nick

Thanks Nick. That's a lot of info to digest. I'm just going to print out all these messages and hand them to the SVT guys. lol!

So, how much power does a 6lb Powerdyne produce? Ford says a 9lb is about 40%. That's a lot. So, is a 6 about 25%? Care to offer thoughts on the NA route instead?

Thx!

Brad

Mr. Johnson, What R&P ratio do you have in this torquey-horsey car of yours?

$2000. That;s the cost of a new fuel pump and the gasket. Hmmmm... very interesting.

has enough power from idle to 3,500 rpm? I find it lacks after that. Plus then, does traction become an issue?

learning something. :)

do a web search on "powerdyne supercharger".

I also have a 93 GT (although with a lot more miles than yours). I have done quite a bit of research on the issues you bring up. I would summarize it like this: The centrifugals are best for the track (where you're "winding out" every gear as a rule), and the twin screws like Whipple and Kenne Bell are best for the street because, let's face it, how often do you really hit 5500 rpm driving around town. A lot of people say the KB on the 5.0 feels like a big block; they say it feels more like big displacement than forced induction.

I have also researched doing a NA build up as you mentioned. Lots of people get big power without a traditional "power adder". The question is, what gives you the most bang for the buck. For most of us, that's a power adder.

John

I have 3.55s which are really too high (numerically) for the torque it puts out. I wish I had kept the stock 3.08s or maybe went with 3.27s.

The torque you are seeing at the wheels is probably much less, especially with the altitude in your area. I can tell you that 460 ft-lbs at the rear wheels is light years ahead of the stock output.

A rule of thumb for a car near sea level is 8-12 horsepower per psi of boost depending on any other modifications you have made. Substantial torque increases with a centrifugal blower will be limited to

4,500-5,000 rpm and above. The power band of a centrifugal is narrow where a twin screw's is across the entire rpm range.

If you were at sea level I would definitely recommend going with a head/cam/intake swap. It would give you about the same hp/tq (280 rwhp/rwtq) improvement as a supercharger at 6-8 psi and it would be much more reliable. Since you are at a higher altitude I think a blower is a better choice. Since you are at a higher altitude you can probably run higher boost without the temperature penalty you would see at sea level. I really suggest you try and get a ride in two cars, one with each tyoe of blower. The twin screw will feel like you have a strong running, high revving 500 cubic inch engine under the hood. The centrifugal will feel almost stock until 4,500-5,000 rpm and then the power comes on fast and furious.

For the 5.0L engines there are no current Roots kits offered. He would have to go with a Kenne Bell kit. The twin screws are more efficient than the centrifugals and make less heat from compression. They also take much less hp to drive them at the same boost levels. The down side of the twin screw is there are no intercooler options for the 5.0L engines. I get around this by using water injection that is just as effective as an intercooler and in many respects is better.

for $2000. That;s the cost of a new fuel pump and the gasket. Hmmmm... very interesting.

5.0 has enough power from idle to 3,500 rpm? I find it lacks after that. Plus then, does traction become an issue?

learning something. :)

The power curve of a twin screw is very similar to a N/A one except it is amplified across the rpm range for both torque and horsepower. If I put someone in a car with a twin screw and they couldn't hear the blower whining they would be hard pressed to tell whether it had a big block or a small block with the blower. I can modulate the power very easy with the throttle. If I want more power I just press the accelerator down more and let up for less. I can accelerate and easily keep the tires at the edge of traction or if I want send them up in a cloud of smoke.

You definitely right about the twin screw being a very good blower for a street driven car. I can enjoy the power it makes in just about any driving situation. One of the best times is coming out of a curve in third gear and accelerating like a rocket from 2,500 rpm to redline. It never fails to put a smile on my face. :)

One other thing I have learned is that trying to make big horsepower increases on the cheap usually ends up costing most than doing it right from the beginning. As the old saying goes, "You have to pay to play". Another is "Horsepower costs money. How fast do you want to go?"

Okay guys. Thanks for ALL the information!

I got tons to think about now. lol

You are all very knowledgeable and helpful and I thank you for taking the time to help!

Brad

The power curve of a twin screw is very similar to a N/A one except it is amplified across the rpm range for both torque and horsepower. If I put someone in a car with a twin screw and they couldn't hear the blower whining they would be hard pressed to tell whether it had a big block or a small block with the blower. I can modulate the power very easy with the throttle. If I want more power I just press the accelerator down more and let up for less. I can accelerate and easily keep the tires at the edge of traction or if I want send them up in a cloud of smoke.

You definitely right about the twin screw being a very good blower for a street driven car. I can enjoy the power it makes in just about any driving situation. One of the best times is coming out of a curve in third gear and accelerating like a rocket from 2,500 rpm to redline. It never fails to put a smile on my face. :)

One other thing I have learned is that trying to make big horsepower increases on the cheap usually ends up costing most than doing it right from the beginning. As the old saying goes, "You have to pay to play". Another is "Horsepower costs money. How fast do you want to go?"