Re: Asian brands dominate reliability list; Ford Motor is best domestic

You make this claim all the time. I can find no credible reference that supports it. Care to provide one? It is true that many corporations (US and Foreign corporations operating in the US) pay no US income taxes, so perhaps Toyota is avoiding them the same way as most corporations. However, at least in theory, "any business income earned on the US territory is subject to income tax, regardless of whether the business is owned by foreigners." There is a decent description of how multi-nationals are taxed at

Toyota definitely pays a lot of income taxes, but maybe they only pay in Japan. However, this seems unlikely to me since there are a number of US incorporated Toyota subsiduararies (i.e., they are US Corporations). And of course US Toyota dealers, the two independent Toyota Distributors, US Owners of Toyota stock, Toyota's US workers etc, all pay US income taxes on income derived from the sale of Toyotas, so at least some of the profits earned on Toyota US sales do end up in the US government's coffers. I wonder, how much US income tax will Ford and GM pay this year?

Other interesting references:

5582,00.html Ed

Interesting. First off the US factories of Japanese auto manufacturers are US Corporations. Secondly both US corporations as well as foreign corporations which conduct business in the United States must obtain a Taxpayer ID number, file Federal corporate income tax returns and pay fedral income taxes. Additionally, both Forein corporations and foreign owned US corporations must file with the respective State for permission to conduct buisiness in that state and again, file State corporate income tax returns and are liable for state income taxes. So at least as far as taxes go they're the same as any US car maker. Can you provide evidence to support your statement that "Even at that ALL of the profits that Toyota earns on the vehicles sold in the US goes back to Japan, US corporate tax free."??

Of course he can't he made it all up.

But what he may have been referring to is a problem that might have occurred prior to Toyota building manufacturing plants in the U.S..

What foreign corporations would do would be to charge abnormally high prices for the products they shipped to their U.S. subsidiaries. Their U.S. subsidiary then shows losses because they charged such high prices for the products they shipped over. The profit is kept in the country where corporate taxes are lower.

With Toyota manufacturing in the U.S., shifting the profits is a lot harder to do. Plus the U.S. corporate tax rates are much lower now.

Of course what's of more interest is how the big 3 continue to post paper losses year after year to avoid paying any corporate income tax at all. Also, GM and Ford operate in other countries where they are able to pay the lower corporate tax rates rather than repatriating the profits to the U.S..

98% of the money spent on US manufactured (or assembled) "foreign" cars stays in the USA. That's been true for years.

OK thanks. That makes sense.

except for the portion that go to the workers, suppliers, etc. here in america and canada.

its the big 3 that have plants in mexico, so they can pay their workers meager wages. if they paid decent money, they wouldnt want to hop the border for sub minimum wage jobs.

The Japanese support there industry, and only purchase Japanese automobiles. Most people in North America are too stupid to realize they are only hurting themselves and there children's futures by buying and supporting the Japanese instead of our own industries.

The Japanese market is quite different from the one here in the USA, Knight.

Gasoline there is a lot more expensive than here, roads may be small and cities crowded. Their minicars have engines with 40 CID. And they drive on the left hand side of the road.

A lot of the stuff manufactured here would not be appreciated in Japan, although there is always some market.

True, however, that their government has not thrown the doors wide open, nor made it convenient to buy American products.

If we punished importers here, it would have to include Ford, GM, and Chrysler. We moan about other nations' protectionism, but we might have to invoke it ourselves if we are to create a favored position for the Big 3.

Except that US Automakers import as much as they build here. Note that the "Japanese" manufacturers and some Europeans now have factories here employing US citizens. 98% of the money that is paid for Japanese automobiles stays here in this country.

I know facts like that don't fit your "pulled it out of the air" concepts about US auto manufacturing, but it's true. Check with an economist for more details on where the money really goes.

Meanwhile, the "big three" have steadfastly fought against improvements in design and manufacturing since the 1970's when they got their first dope slap. The continue to fight today. THAT's why they are in the dumper.

Have you ever been to Japan? I have. I've seen lots of BMWs, Volvos, Mercedes. Plus the occasional Camaro, Mustang or Corvette. I'm pretty certain they aren't made in Japan. Mostly Japanese cars for sure but a huge portion of them are what's classified as "Light" cars over there, different registration, less taxes & dues, unbelievably good gas mileage and pretty darn small. In fact probably too small to ever be imported or be accepted in the US. As far as I know, US auto makers don't target such a market and therefore don't offer any products in that category.

It's not hard decision on whether to buy a Toyota Camry, made in the U.S., or a Ford Fusion, made in Mexico, even though with the huge rebate from Ford ($2500) the Fusion is $18025 versus the Camry with a %1000 rebate at $18,957 (all CarsDirect prices for zip code 93001)

I'll gladly pay the extra $900 or so to help employ U.S. workers in living wage jobs, (as well as getting a much better quality vehicle).

I've got nothing against Mexico, but I won't live in the U.S. and buy a car made by a low wage worker in Mexico when there is a similar product made in the U.S.. Kudos to all the vehicle manufacturers, regardless of their home country, that make the vehicles they sell in the country that they sell them in.

Obviously you've never been to Japan. There are lot's of non-Japanese vehicles in Japan, but they're mostly European vehicles. It's not that the Japanese won't allow U.S. vehicles in, it's that very few U.S. manufacturers a) have anything to sell in Japan (small, very fuel efficient, right hand drive), and they don't want to make the investment to try.

If there was a decent market in it, we could convert our autos for the Japanese market. But, like I said, they won't buy them. They are smarter then we are, and they support the "hand that feeds them", instead of biting it.

And why would they? If you live in Japan, by Japanese. If you live in North America, by GM, or Ford. Problem is, like I said, we're too stupid to do that. If GM and/or Ford were to go belly up, the economy will be so bad, it would make today's look like a treat. But people don't think of that. Where are you going to get all the $$ to buy that precious over-priced Camary if the only place you can work at is McDonalds?

Toyota and all other Foreign auto makers should be kicked out of North America. Ford and GM should then be required to bring all manufacturing job's back to North America. If people don't like the Domestic auto's, they are welcome to move to Japan.

Blame our politicians. They pushed for globalism.

If you want to blame the failure of GM, Ford, and Chrysler on someone, sight for the top.

Not really the fault lies with the greedy American consumers that choose to buy from foreign manufacturers. If we did not buy imports there would not BE any imports. But hey there our jobs, send them off shore if that is what you want to do. ;)

Wait, it can't be "greedy consumers" if the "foreign manufacturers" are charging more.

Oh, and I'm confused. Is a Ford Fusion built in Mexico being built by a foreign manufacturer? How about a Toyota Corolla built in the U.S., is that being built by a foreign or U.S. manufacturer, LOL.

Already a lot of Americans won't buy imports. They buy vehicles made right here in the good old U.S. of A., built by American workers being paid living wages. Why buy an imported Ford Fusion, when you can buy a domestically produced Toyota Camry, or Honda Accord and keep U.S. workers employed.

Maybe one of Obama's goals should be to get the value of labor included in domestic content percentages.

You are correct but you are only proving my point. The reference was to all manufacturers not merely cars. Try to buying an American made garment, shoe or electronics, ALL cars will be next it seems. The greedy consumers do not care

I do blame the top people at GM for the mistakes they have made. I also blame consumers for the reason the Big 3 are in deep shit. GM had some bad products, but it's quality has improved big time, while Toyota continues to recall more and more vehicles, due to trying to overtake GM too fast. GM still outsells Toyota, which means there are still more people with brains in N/A then without, but it looks like that is changing.

Yet you have no problems sending money to the Japanese by purchasing there products. Keep trying to tell yourself that you are helping the US workers. By the way, how much do they get paid, as opposed to a Domestic auto worker?