Re: K/N vs reg air filters

Take a car with a K&N into the dealer with a MAS problem and see if they fix it under warranty, they won't.

I know people who work at the ford dealer, do you? I doubt Ford would "officially" say these are bad for 2 reasons. K&N would probably sue them and they wouldn't sell as many MAS's. they have NOTHING to gain being forced to prove beyond any doubt K&N filters cause problems.

I can send you a dozen dead MAS's from cars using K&N's, how much more "evidence" do you need? Like I said EVERY dead MAS either has a s***ty 3rd party filter or a K&N. Your evidence is the marker of a 3rd party product claims it's product has no problem. Yea that's who I'd trust..

Feel free to IGNORE my advice since you seem to want to believe someone who has a vested interest in promoting their product. While you're at it, load up on some bosch platinums, they are supposed to work better than factory plugs acording to bosch....

(Hate to come into this so late, but...) Does a 1985 Toyota 22RE (in a pickup) have an MAS? Either way, I've been using a K&N filter in it for 15 years w/o a problem. Use one in my motorcycle as well.

Maybe all these K&N users that have dead MAS's don't know how to properly apply the filter oil? (Just a thought.)

Also, is K&N the ONLY company marketing oiled filter systems? If *NOT*, are any of those causing problems?

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In a way I wish mine would fail so I could test your theory. They would not get away with ignoring my warranty without having evidence. If they had evidence then they would have a point.

I don't know people who work at Ford but I do know that if Ford or Ford employees had evidence that a K&N filter caused a MAS problem they wouldn't be afraid of being sued by K&N. You would only be afraid of being sued if you were guessing and had no actual evidence or if it was a convenient way to skirt the warranty with people that didn't know better.

s***ty 3rd

I'm sure I can find dozens or hundreds of MAS that failed without a K&N filter. Do you doubt that? Did all of these cars have specialty tires also? Maybe that was the cause. That logic makes as much sense. If Ford or anyone else had evidence that a K&N filter made MAS fail they would have done testing and issued a tech bulletin on the subject. I doubt that Ford is afraid of K&N.

someone who

The US had a vested interest in saying that we landed on the moon. Did we? Without contrary evidence why shouldn't someone believe K&N?

Gate type AFM's aren't affected by them.

Sure they would and do it regularly. I'd bet if you have a K&N on a nissan and the MAS is killed they wouldn't warranty it either.

Sure they would. You forget they still have to defend themselves in court which could cost them hundreds of thousands of dollars for no real benefit.

Again they have nothing to gain by making a =public= statement. They get to sell more MAS when people use these and they risk having to defend themselves in court for no good reason.

So you believe bosch saying their platiums are better pluigs as well?

Obviously you "believe" these filters somehow make more power or are a better solution for some reason. I'm just posting I think they are a total waste of money and can damage the cars MAS.

BTW found this doing a search, bet this is a pretty comon memo and describes the problem...

SERVICE - ALL BUICK, CADILLAC, CHEVROLET, GMC TRUCK, ISUZU, OLDSMOBILE, PONTIAC AND HUMMER DEALERS

Subject: A/T Shift, Engine Driveability Concerns or SES Light On as a Result of the Installation of an Aftermarket Reusable, Excessively Oiled Air Filter -- 2004 and Prior Cars and Lt Duty Trucks and 2003-2004 HUMMER H2 Message #: VSS20040056

Corporate Bulletin Number 04-07-30-013 will be available in SI on March 18,

Automatic Transmission Shift, Engine Driveability Concerns or Service Engine Soon (SES) Light On as a Result of the Installation of an Aftermarket Reusable, Excessively Oiled Air Filter

Models: 2004 and All Prior Cars and Light Duty Trucks

DO THIS First, Inspect the vehicle for a reusable aftermarket excessively oiled air filter

DON'T DO THIS DO NOT repair under warranty if concerns result from the use of a reusable aftermarket oiled air filter.

The installation of an aftermarket reusable, oiled air filter may result in:

1. Service Engine Soon (SES) Light On

1. Transmission shift concerns, slipping and damaged clutch(es) or band(s)

2. Engine driveability concerns, poor acceleration from a stop, limited engine RPM range

The oil that is used on these air filter elements may be transferred onto the Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor causing contamination of the sensor. As a result, the Grams per Second (GPS) signal from the MAF may be low and any or all of the concerns listed above may occur.

When servicing a vehicle with any of these concerns, be sure to check for the presence of an aftermarket reusable, excessively oiled air filter. The MAF, GPS reading should be compared to a like vehicle with a OEM air box and filter under the same driving conditions to verify the concern.

Transmission or engine driveability concerns that are the result of the installation of an aftermarket reusable, excessively oiled air filter are not considered to be warrantable repair items.

I'm sure you'll still say this isn't "evidence"...

I had suggested in another reply that it was possible these issues were related to IMPROPER oiling of the filter.

Seems that this memo agrees ;-)

Of course, the dealers will state that ANY OIL AT ALL is excessive! :-o

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Or the fact they have oil on them period.

Exactly. And you can't imagine that some might be "over oiled" from the factory? Bottom line is oil type filters can kill MAS's for ZERO positive gain. Unless your time is worth less than $7 a hour, why would anyone see these as a "savings" either? It takes 100,000 miles to break even if your time is totally worthless so what's the good point?

I do use a cone K&N on my own hot roded 280 because of space problems and the fact my Z has no AFM/MAS at all now. On a otherwise stock car though, they are a =total= waste of money.

Does anyone have any comments regarding the K&N oil filters. I bought a few for my Infiniti QX4 but have not had a chance to install one.

Norm

Never used them but they are probably OK. I'd rather see you just use the dealer filters that were designed for your car rather than something K&N sells for it..

How much more did it cost than a stock Nissan filter? I've seen some cleanable spin on oil filters (usually for diesel trucks) but they don't filter down to the small particicle size that paper cartridge ones do or have limited number of cleaning cycles and require pressure flushing.

Cut a load of oil filters up and compared the contents.