Running without oil!! What damage??

I have a 92 GXE. Last week I went to Jiffy Lube :thumbsdow to get my oil changed. They drained the oil, BUT one thing they forgot to do was refill it. I almost left the parking lot but saw my idiot oil light was on. I went back and they said my oil was low, and asked me to pull around back so they could top it up. The guy added oil quart by quart until he told me "I wish there is something I could tell you, but they just didn't put any oil in". F#$#*$&# So my car was running for a couple of minutes without oil. It seems to be ok, but since then I think I have got a small oil leak which I don't think I had before, and it is not from the drain plug or the filter. I am am bit worried and am going to take my car to a mechanic to check it out. What checks should I get them to do to make sure my engine is not screwed? Compression check? What damage could this have done? Also I think I smell gas in my oil, and my oil level seems to be overfull. Could this be related or am I just being paranoid.

Cheers, Matthew

Reply to
m duggan
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Not to worry you, but you probably seriously screwed your engine. The likely damage is not an oil leak or something external but more likely internal damage to the crank, cyl's ring's cams, etc. You can't see the problem they caused but you will suffer from them later.

Did you get anything in writing from them? If not, stop what you are doing, go back there, and find the guy who helped you fill the oil. He'll remember - unless it happens a lot, which is quite possible at Jiffy. Grab him by the collar, get the manager, and get an acknowledgement *in writing* that they will pay to have your engine inspected and repaired as necessary. They're going to give you grief because the car is older... don't stand for it, you had a properly running engine when you went in, you deserve one when you come out.

There are two kinds of people in the world: Those who avoid all quick change oil places, and those who will.

Bob

Reply to
'nuther Bob

These Jiffy Lube places aren't all bad but you just have to watch what they are doing and make sure the oil change is done properly. Having said that, I did have a friend who when in there but the guy forgot to screw the engine cap back afterwards. The engine caught fire later on and had to be written off.

Reply to
Goldfinger

I am am bit worried and am going to take my car to a mechanic

You can't check for the real damage without totally disassembling the engine. You have almost certainly damaged the crank bearings. Japanese bearings are made of relatively soft material compared to domestic. The oil pressure holds the crank centered in the bearings without contact. With no oil, your crank slammed into the bearings constantly, got them hot & worn down.

Unless you have an immediate failure, you probably aren't going to prove to a judge/jury's satisfaction that anything was harmed. The sad fact is, your engine is probably screwed up, and if you drive it long enough, it will show.

IMHO, they will never agree to a cash settlement. And if you bring suit, they'll show up with 5 of their buddies from other oil change centers to swear that no harm was done. The industry will stick together, after all. You could demand free oil changes for life, but even if they agreed, why would you take your car back there?

Have your mechanic check your oil pressure. If it is measurably low, it is likely because the bearings can't hold the oil pressure properly anymore, and it is just spewing out past the bearings. That will cause the bearings to get progressively worse.

I would be massively pissed off if I were you.

JM

Reply to
JM

Bob, yer pretty funny, man. I like the part about the one's who WILL avoid the quickie lube places!! My mrs. took her 94 GXE to Firestone here in Plano and came back with an extra quart. Yes, all those grease monkies need to be watched. Now, I don't think poor ol' Matthew seriously screwed his engine unless he went more than a few blocks and jumped on the throttle. An old engine should have enough wear surfaces that are somewhat "polished up" and still coated with enough oil to provide enough lubrication not to start a metal-on-metal bruhaha. As far as the alleged leak, the 3rd gens have an area by the filter that traps alittle oil so that it will drip for a few days if not wiped off immediately. He may have inflicted alittle more wear, but I think it will run ok for several thousand miles. If it's really screwed, he will definitely hear rattling and tapping here pretty soon. In any event, he needs to document the snot out of this incident and go after these guys in case his motor crashes. Keep it up!! Chris

90 & 94 GXE's
Reply to
Chris H

Just thought of something... m. duggan's motor may not be in such bad shape.

Do 92's have hydraulic lifters? a hydraulic lifter equipped engine should clatter like a banshee if lit off completely w/out oil. His explanation offers no suggestion his engine made any noise while it ran... for "a couple minutes" no less... so it may be there was some oil in it, enough to reach the pickup, actuate lifters and maybe provide protection for bearings.

I have to reflect that the statement that "they just didn't put any oil in it" comes from a member of the same highly skilled JiffyLube staff that didn't put oil in it, and then proceeded to overfill it!

Still want to get this incident documented and filed with JiffyLube in case of any future problems.

BuddyWh

Reply to
BuddyWh

When I was a kid in high school I worked at a gas station and the boss would sell a engine cleaning deal with a filter and oil change. You would drain oil remove filter from it's housing (they had housings back then) and fill crankcase with kerosene mixed with about a quart of light oil. The rn the engine for about 15 Mins then drain and install filter and new oil. Well one day a guy in a 49 Mercury thought they were finished and the Boss forgot to check with us hands. The guy drove off. About a week later he returned asking why his auto was so noisy. Quickly the Boss got it back in the change bay. drained the kerosene and put some new oil back in. The guy never was the wiser. A few weeks later he returned driving another auto told us the mercury had dies just locked up. I still remember this and have always changed my own oil and filters and I am not a kid anymore. I will never ever trust a quick lub joint. a Wal Mart. or even a dealership. They all us dumb kids to do the hot dirty work. and thing do go wrong. ronm

Reply to
ronm

Reply to
ronm

One other thing you can do to check bearing clearance is use plastigage on all the connecting rod bearings. The main bearing cap is a four-bearing ganged assembly whereas all four main crank bearings are held in place by one big casting that is bolted into the block. I'm not sure if you can remove that from underneath the car without going further into engine disassembly. I would be mostly concerned with the connecting rod bearings since they are the ones taking most of the pressures. You'll need to drop the oil pan and then take each rod bearing cap off, insert the plastigage material, retorque the cap, remove the cap and then measure the plastigage for clearance. Also you can do a visual on the cap bearing surfaces at that time. Just a thought...

Chris

Reply to
Chris H

Of course, then there's morons like me who - after changing my own oil once - forgot to check for the filter seal. I put the new filter (and seal) on over the old one.

What a mess!

Reply to
The Creature From Groom Lake

This situation poses interesting ethical questions?

What is the responsibility of the lube shop that likely caused some damage to the engine? Surely they should be liable to fix whatever damage has occurred. The problem is, as previous posters have already pointed out, that in the absence of any outward symptoms such as piston slap, etc., the only definitive way to prove that damage has occurred would be to disassemble the engine -- something to which the lube shop is not likely to agree. Nevertheless, it is highly likely that some damage has occurred and that it will result in the premature passing of your engine to the great junkyard in the sky. Let's say that this sad event happens in a year or so. Does anyone seriously believe that the lube shop will be willing to make restitution after so much time as passed? Hardly.

So here is a solution for you to consider:

Drain the oil from your car and run it until there is no mistaking the clatter of damaged bearings, etc. Replace the oil and return to the lube shop and file your complaint. If they give you any grief, contact the Bureau of Automotive repair and file a complaint.

Strictly speaking, I realize that my suggestion is not an ethical one, but the customer of the lube shop should not be left with no recourse for driving around in what amounts to a mechanical time bomb.

Just an idea . . .

Feynmanfan

Reply to
Feynmanfan

Ethics aside, what happens if his engine seizes up during this exercise? I doubt that putting the oil back in after that will "look" exactly right to a mechanic doing a post-mortem. There will be air in the filter, not oil, for example, and even if you take care of that, there are probably similar telltale signs internally. I'm sure that there are also wear differences in the "damaged/driven normally to failure" mode versus the "damaged/even more accelerated damage" mode.

He's already got a transportation/financial problem, and there's no reason to add a criminal fraud charge to the mix.

If someone is going to go to extremes, I'd discuss the problem with management, and WHEN they blow you off, park in a public place (!) during their busy hours, with a sign telling customers to ask about their "No Oil Special". A couple of days of that may bring them around. (Technique works for house foundation problems too, by the way.)

JM

Reply to
JM

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