Why do petrol cars have vacuum pumps?

Oh, do let's; it'll be jolly good fun, old bean. We can start by discussing how the Jeep Grand Cherokee beat out your homegrown Range Rovah for best 4x4...IN YOUR OWN UK MARKET!

And when we've finished chatting about that, we can make a comparative list of profitable, volume-exporting US and British automakers. You know, a friendly game of pick-up-sticks to see which country has the more successful, more robust auto industry? That'd be splendid.

And once that game's won, we can talk about Lucas electrics -- the justified laughingstock of the entire automotive world -- and maybe have a couple laughs over SU and Zenith carburettors. That'd provide a nice segue for talking about how the UK's pathetic attempt at an auto industry managed to keep modern emission regulations out of the British question clear up until *1991*, due to a claimed inability to meet such tough standards.

H'm...naw, better not talk about that last one; it could lead back to a discussion of Lucas electrics and SU and Zenith carburettors.

Tell us, ol' chap, what British car do *you* drive?

Odd, that. Delcos are some of the best distributors around, it's the Prestolites that are notorious junk. What era are we talking here? The "window" distributor had a run of over 10 years and it's a good unit. Or are we talking the newer HEI stuff?

nate

Homegrown? Bought by Ford from BMW? Are you mad, or just living in the past? The concept of the Range Rover as a reasonably comfortable go anywhere vehicle at a sensible price died years ago. It's now just the same as any other expensive bloated lifestyle 4x4.

But I'd still like your reference for that.

As in Chrysler being taken over by M-B? And all your other majors loosing money hand over fist? Having to buy 'foreign' makes to try and stay competitive? And you wonder why you're in a recession?

You bought that too...

Strange you should worry about the reliability of car electrics given the number of electrical fires you have in your homes through inadequate wiring standards?

So you want your emission standards imposed on the rest of the world whether needed or not while you're the biggest waster of oil resources? That's logic?

Perhaps you'd name the makers of your much more reliable electrics and carburettors when Lucas was the major supplier in the UK? Of course, I've not got much experience of US made cars - they were never exported to the UK in any quantity. You don't need to be told why, I'm sure. The couple I did have dealings with had headlights so poor as to be dangerous.

Some makers here did use US electrics. Delco distributors. Now they *were* a bad joke. Delco batteries are common too. They don't last either.

The prosecution rests, y'rhonor.

Almost all the American auto makers used vaccum wipers at some point. They were very common up until 1958 with Ford still using them on the Brono up until 1968. Vacuum wipers slowed to a crawl under heavy accleleration but they worked wonderfully at idle :-)

Steve B.

Are there any "British" cars extant? Didn't Ford, GM and -horrors- the Germans buy up everything?

Chas Hurst

Chas: Shhhhhhh! Plowman's painted himself into a corner; let's sit quietly and watch him try futilely to tapdance his way out.

A dozen off the top of my head to begin with:

Morgan Noble Caterham Westfield Ascari TVR Ginetta Radical Bristol Ultima Ariel Grinnall Lister

However, I do have a great deal of experience of older UK cars fitted with Lucas equipment, and have found it no more unreliable than any other make. Perhaps most electrical problems on old cars are caused by grounding problems, and Lucas haven't any control over those.

Being such an expert on UK cars fitted with Lucas products, you'd give some actual examples of poorly designed or manufactured parts?

And your opinion of a mass maker who did better at the time?

The only mass maker left is Rover who produce a range of now getting pretty out of date cars.

The 75, which was designed during BMW's ownership, is rather a good car of its type, especially in diesel form.

However, I'd hardly say the US car industry is in fine form - would you?

Perhaps the largest of these - TVR - was recently bought by a Russian. ;-)

But you missed out Rover. Freudian slip?

Heh - still counts as one of ours IMO.

Must be. My father has a V6 75 - very nice car.

And safety.

Remember the Chrysler Voyager couldn't even manage to score a single star in the NCAP safety tests. It's a death trap.

Yeh, that would be why the Grand Cherokee is at the bottom of the J D Power ratings in the UK. With only a couple of other Chrysler products coming lower down the scale.

Well then you've missed out many that are made in the UK - including for example the new Mini.

Yes - I considered one some time ago, but it was a bit lacking in grunt in auto form. It really needs variable valve timing - but they haven't the funds to develop this.

I do still have one of the last true Rovers, though, an SD1 EFI. That doesn't lack grunt. ;-)

We're not discussing that right now are we?

And Peugeots....

Hmm, I reckon the oligarch will grow bored of his new plaything soon enough and a Brit will buy it back :) I purposely didn't put RR, Mini, Bentley on the list - I reckon they're non-Brit forever now :(

Agreed - he has the 2.5 auto and it's a bit down on my I6 2.2 auto. The engine note isn't as pleasant and the interior is a fair bit smaller than you'd expect, but for a midi luxo-barge that'll waft with the best of them, a fully loaded one that's been smacked by the depreciation stick is a fine choice.

OK, so that's 13 cars (total). How 'bout any British cars that more than 3 people outside the isles have ever seen or driven?

Gawd alone knows what we're discussing in these crossposted sessions - it started for me with someone saying how wonderful vacuum operated wipers were. Which is why everyone still uses them. ;-)