Re: Why are all these people knocking GM ?????????

Timmy Dont be such a redneck. People are trying to relate their own personal experiences.

This has nothing to do with Pearl Harbor, the KKK, or the Communist party.

People who wont listen and learn are doomed. There is not a single complaint that has been aired here that does not have some merit.

I have no dog in the fight where GM is concerned. But I KNOW what my issues are, and GM has done little or nothing to address them.

But you have to admit a lot of people support Japanese simply because of pure hype and that "there ice is colder" mentality. I also know from experience from 2 family members who have owned a Toyota and the other had

There may be some people who believe that Japanese is best, as some used to believe that German engineering and quality was superior...(maybe it was, at one time).

The statistics that are published seem to show that certain models of Honda and Toyota are significantly less likely to have failures than the norm. I am sure they have their problems too.

The Japanese have a pretty good reputation for repairing their errors with no hassel from dealerships or corporate. True or not, I do not know.

My complaint with GM had to do with older short warranties (36000 miles) and failure to address key issues in quality that GM KNEW were their fault. The plastic plenum is only one of them. (Volkswagen has the same s***ty reputation)

GM has made some progress on warranties, and we can hope that they will listen to what their clients want, and what we dont want, and will respond positively.

The problem has been squarely in GM's court... The Japanese didnt get a good reputation by behaving in this manner. Maybe this is an innovation of the Asians that GM can copy.

If one listened to the import buyer one might think all GM cars fall apart when the warranty expires.

I take my 1971 Pinto with 300K on the clock, (you know how bad they were,) to old car shows and it wins awards. Except a 'Z' car or an RX& on occasion, I have yet to see a Jap sedan from the seventies or even the eighties at one of those shows. Lot of British cars (you know how bad they were, German and even Italian sedans but never a Jap car from that time period. LOL

mike

Mike, You are obviously a reasonably intelligent person. Therefore why do think just because no Japanese cars from the 70's are at the shows it is indicative of them being crap? And that because someone with more money than common sense will spend big bucks on the crappy Brit and Italian cars of that era makes them better? You are old enough to remember what lumps of crap those German and Brit cars were, just as you know that the Japanese cars of that time were not any better or worse than the European cars.

You are also smart enough to know that today the products produced by the Japanese companies receive much higher customer (real world) satisfaction ratings as reported by that left wing socialist magazine CR.

I truly wish that cars made by GM, Ford and the half Nazi company using the Chrysler name were better products. However they are what they are; more of a problem to their owners than Japanese cars.

The Pinto was a POS from the word go but probably sold more copies in the US than all the Japanese makers put together in 1971. Not that their quality was that great either but getting an award for a Pinto is like gettng an award for having a dropped bomb that didn't explode. Sorry couldn't resist ..............but not kidding about the difference in numbers. Had a 66 Mustang that's still one of my favorite cars so not just bashing Ford.

During the 80's GM had 12month no rust through warranties. What more needs to be said about quality. If not for the Japanese you'd have to pick up Bondo on your way home from the dealership after buying new Detroit "iron".

Meanwhile, back to the future, the only 2 Japanese cars I have experience with is my father-in-laws Accord and a rental Mitsubishi Gallant. The Accord is a great car. The Gallant is a POS. My G Am is much closer to the Accord than the Gallant. Especially considering age differences. It certainly can't be said all Jap cars are better.

I would say mostly true. I know a friend of mine had his butt kissed by Infiniti on a cheap used G20 back in the day (overrevved it because he missed a shift, got a free new head even after he told the dealership what he did.) I don't know if that is still true but stories like that are plentiful and contribute to the reputation of the Japanese as being overall more forgiving and pleasant to deal with.

Agreed!

Which is a shame because a lot of VW's problems are supplier problems not problems directly attributable to the engineering or build quality of their vehicles. They're really excellent, solid cars BUT handling of warranty claims by VWoA is... not so good. Don't get me started on the number that I personally have knowledge of... like the A4 window regulators, coil packs, and the A2 heater cores... had VW handled these issues better, they could have built themselves a nice reputation for standing behind their product, but their manner of handling these issues was totally out of character with the overall quality (and let's be honest, purchase price) of their vehicles.

Absolutely.

nate

Mitsushitty is in a class by itself. The only thing they have going for them is the reputation of the other Japanese mfgrs. and the fact that they, too are Japanese.

nate

In other words you believe the crappy cars from the US and Europe were good enough to still be around but the crappy cars form Japan were not?

You are smart enough to know that is only an opinion. My opinion is far different. I have owned many import brands from VW to Lexus they were no better or worse than any of the domestic I have owned. They cost me more, but that is the only difference I discovered. I now buy domestics. The fact is every manufacture today is building good stuff, even the Koreans. Apparently more Americans agree with my opinion than yours, since today they buy more vehicles from GM and Ford than any import. ;)

mike

You can stop typing your boilerplate reply (or are you copying from a text document on your hard drive?) any time, "mike." Anyone with a lick of sense knows you're wrong. All you're proving is that you are incapable of evaluating quality.

nate

That may be your opinion but what I do know for a fact, based on sales, more Americans prefer the quality of the current GM and Ford vehicles than the quality of any import brand,. Whether you agree or not is immaterial, you can spend your money wherever you wish. I know I do. Surely you do not expect to find only those that agree with your personal opinion in a GM NG. If that is what you want, try one of the Jap brand NGs, WBMA Try a Toyota NG, those guys would have others believe they never breakdown and if they do Toyota will fix them forever. LOL

. mike

What makes you think I like Toyotas? I don't particularly, except maybe if someone offered me a twin-turbo Supra I'd be tempted. I am here because I *have* a GM car, although most of the content of this NG seems to be this constant back and forth that you perpetuate rather than real technical information.

Perhaps I should pose some questions:

2) How can I reprogram my transmission so it does not constantly shift and lock/unlock the torque converter?

4) Is there any way that I can get enough power out of the car so it isn't constantly downshifting on freeway upgrades?

6) Is there any way that I can get enough range of adjustment on the tone of the stereo so it doesn't sound like some "boom-boom" system that a techno-loving riceboy installed?

8) I'm missing my gauges. The car seems to have been built without any of the gauges except for a speedometer, temp gauge, and fuel gauge. If you see them, please let me know.

thanks,

nate

Forgot some.

11) Is there any way to move the pedals and steering wheel farther towards the rear of the car? I'm only 6' tall but have a hard time folding my legs up enough to exit the car gracefully with the seat in a comfortable driving position.

13) Any recommendations for tires that aren't ludicrously tractionless?

15) Is there any way to raise the car for more ground clearance? I physically cannot get the car into my driveway without severely scraping the underside. Which is odd, since my Porsche can be driven straight up into it.

I'm sure I will have more questions, but that's it for now, I think.

nate

Lots of problems back then. Owned a Vega. Luckily my brother worked at the dealership. Just thought the rust through really typified their arrogance at selling crap that they thought people would just have to buy. Seemed to start in the late sixties but was just unbelievable in the late seventies and eighties. Soft cams good for 30K. The 350 diesel.

Ironically my step-father had an early 80's Olds(gasoline engine) he put

The days when engineers and tech exchanged information in the NGs, are long gone. Today it is just guys looking for a free fix, or to bitch. You will get no help from me, take it to competent tech, WBMA. When I teach a school I get paid. ;)

mike

Seems to me you should have test driven that vehicle before you made the purchase. . ;)

mike

I didn't buy it, it's a company car.

Most people don't *buy* GM cars. They drive them because that's what their employer buys, or that's what's available at the rental counter. And then they have experiences like mine, and they continue to not buy GM cars as a result of same.

nate

Mike Hunter wrote:

Perhaps you should be looking at how well you employer maintains their vehicles. ;)

mike

Most of the issues I listed are s***ty DESIGN not s***ty maintenance.

The car is a POS. Face facts.

I could probably have the nonfunctional parking brake repaired, but I shouldn't have to. I could probably have the tires replaced with ones that actually function well, but I shouldn't have to. (and that would have to be at my own expense, since they still have tread left.) How would you suggest the lack of power, thrashiness, busy transmission, and poor ergonomics be addressed? (there's SO many ergonomic problems that this car has that German cars had figured out at least by the early '80s that I doubt I could list them all if I tried.) What about the ludicrously low ground clearance?

The sad thing is that the exterior body design is not unattractive, to the point that I thought when I first got it that I might take extra special care of it because I thought it might be acceptable as a personal vehicle and I'd buy it out personally when the lease was up. It's not my type of car, but generally you can get a good deal by buying out your own company car. But after having spent a little more than a year with it, I can't wait until it hits 70K so I can trade it in on something else. There's really nothing to recommend it other than I don't have to pay for it.

Driving this car has done nothing but strongly reinforce my belief that it's always better to buy a cheap, beat up German car rather than a new American one. I fondly remember my old 535i that I used to have; at

Now I don't expect for GM to build me a BMW. There's a reason that they cost so much. But when I was in college, my roommate had a 70's Impala that he'd inherited from his grandfather. Even though that car was built in the darkest years of the smog era, it was FAR more acceptable as transportation than the '05. I think I'd rather have one of those if it came to it, assuming that I could find one that hadn't rusted away to nothing still.

nate

Mike Hunter wrote: