GM management has major issues from the CEO on down, not only that they be
dissin' their customers for years buy selling faulty 3.1, 3.4 and 3.8 v6's
that eventually have premature failing intake gaskets causing $800 plus in
repairs. I was considering looking a the G6, not the sedan cuz they are
uglier than a Yugo on steroids. I have seen a couple of pictures of the G6
coupe GTP model which seems to look good at list in print, in person may
look ugly who knows. My concern is the new 3.9 v6 that they will have, they
are unproven and I dont know about being a guinea pig for GMs engines after
there other problem engines. Not only that they are laying off 25k employees
when management really needs to either resign or do what Lee Iacoca did in
the early eighties to bring back chrysler and that was he worked as the CEO
for a $1 annual salary until back on their feet, in other words he had faith
in his efforts. Why isnt GM management doing the same thing? They are all
millionaires and can afford it, yet they lay off the little man who cant
afford it. That sucks and they may make me turn my back on GM. I just hope
those workers get picked up by Toyota or some other company.
yep, and remember your observations and comments when your asian
product gives you nothing but problems. Doesn't matter, european, asia,
american, if it goes round and round it's gonna break down. There are
many good american autos out there made by americans by american
companies but if you feel like supporting a foriegn company have right
at it and don't be surprised when the only job your kids or grandkids
can find is at burger king or cleaning bathrooms.
the irony is that some of the so called "american" cars are made in
MEXICO and some of the so called "Foreign" car are made in USA (i.e
Mitsubishi: Normal, IL, Corolla: Somewhere in CA)
Tough call but I'm sorry for 25000 workers (nearly 100 000 people
Your arguement is somewhat flawed.
There are parts and subassemblies and engines made in Mexico but no GM
cars. NAFTA considers Mexico and Canada as North American made and
stated as such. If you buy a GM product rest assured it is and American
auto and the profits from that auto stay pretty much in North America.
So the autos you are talking about qualify as American made.
Buy a U.S. made Asian product and the profits go to their home land and
do not stay here. The parts used in most Asian auto assembled here in
the 'States' are imported from the oversea asian makers.
It is a tough call for the 25k GM workers but it happens. Good thing
most of the job loss will be through attrition and not through direct
Go ahead and keep buying foriegn made products(not just autos) and your
offspring will have to flip burgers etc(low paying dead end jobs).
One day Americans will learn that manufacturing of a product was and
is the basis the American economy was founded on. No U.S. product, no
real U.S. economy.
I like asking questions:
the other side of the story: There are two things you should consider:
1 profit that gm made
2 tax and sallary the foreign company pays
Without knowing these numbers it is not right to compare anything.
If Mitsubishi spends more money in usa (tax and sallary) than, the
profit GM made, then obviously buying a Mitsubishi is more patriotic.
Else, sticking with GM is a much better decision.
Please consider that Mitsubishi is providing some work for America and
Pay tax to american goverment not GM (or part suppliers).
It is always bad to use forign products (made out of usa or made by
foreign companies) for the country but not for the individuals.
Since late 60, US economy become a service economy: less than half of
the us economy is due to productivity. Still usa has a strong economy:
we donot know how long it will last tough...
Gas pricess are a good example: Dollar is loosing power... However they
manupulate it (increasing interest rates, declaring war to other
countries, pressurizing other countires), i think it is a solid truth.
Long story short: Capitalism rules...
Why do we always get the same YA'BUT? Certainly foreign
manufactures, that only assemble, in the US spend money in the
US. Why would you think domestic manufactures do not spend the
same or more? Domestic spend far more in the US than ANY foreign
assembler adds to the US economy. Get real
u c c wrote:
And if the company has no profits?(GM) And exactly how much of the
profits actually reach the economy after taxes and corporate graft
and so on?
The real determiner should be where it's *made*. The cost of
making the vehicle and assembling it far exceeds any profit
margin for all but a few cars.
That is a bogus argument. The difference of course is when one
buys a vehicle made in the US by American corporation ALL of the
cost of the parts and those connect to the building the vehicle
are spent in the US and remain in he US, as well as all of the
profits that are taxed in the US and the dividends paid to the
American stock holders are taxed again by the government.
When one buys a vehicle that only assembled in the US of mostly
imported parts, like the Tundra and the Camry, all of the part
cost as well as all of the profits and stock holder dividends
leave the US and they leave untaxed.
In addition the workers in foreign owned plants receive lower
wages and fewer benefits, even though the Camry and Tundra cost
more to drive home than those of similar sized and equipped
IT it your childrens jobs that you are exporting along with the
money that leaves the US.
Joseph Oberlander wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:53:58 -0400, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
What about the "foreign" shareholders? They are many and large.
Don't know about Tundra and Camry, but the vast majority of the
Corolla is not only assembled but manufactured in North America. Same
with the Hondas built in Alliston Ontario. Engines may be made in
Japan - but lots of GM engines came from Brazil too. And lots of
so-called GM cars are made entirely in Korea by their Korean
subsiiary, DaeWoo. Others by their Japanese partner, Suzuki.
The Toyota workers are very happy to work for Toyota for the wages
they recieve, rather than working for GM, Ford, or Chrysler. Here in
Cambridge ontario they are VERY well paid.
And Toyota provides many jobs in the parts manufacturing businesses
located across North America too. Much rather have Toyota and Honda
building here than be buying Japanese manufactured vehicles. At least
the "assembler" wages, and the wages of the parts manufacturers are
paid here, to local workers.
It is your money spend it were you wish. I wonder what are they
teaching in schools today. Your questions should have been
asked and answered, in economics 101.. Buy those products that
are produced in you own county of parts made in you own country
by a manufacture that pays taxes in you own county, if you goal
is to help the economy in your own country. THAT is what the
Japanese do, we should be as smart. Buying from foreign
manufactures that only assembles with lower paid workers or buy
only some parts in your country and take the money out of you
county tax free, is simply not as good. As to the employees
being happy, I'll bet they would be much HAPPIER making the wages
and receiving the benefit of a Union shop. LOL
On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:57:46 -0400, email@example.com wrote:
They have fought the union fairly effectively for over a decade. Hope
they manage to continue in that direction. UAW just makes cars more
expensive - they exist more for their own good than the good of the
workers. (most unions fall into that category - a bunch of crooks)
The foreign assembly plants in the US is just good business and advertising
(for them). It is cheaper to box all the parts in contaniners for shipment
to the U.S. and then have them assembled in an almost totally automatic
plant than it is to ship the assembled vehicles.
Same goes for American cars. They can import the parts that require a lot
of manpower a lot cheaper than making them in the U.S.
Which is my point as well. Where the plant is is what's the biggest
factor. Union labor and a big plant - that's an unescapeable
few hundred million or more a year in upkeep, salaries, maintainence,
transporting materials.... all into the local economy at the lowest
levels.(because as we've all seen, trickle-down economics only works
IF the rich give their money to the poorer people)
I'd surely buy a vehicle made at NUUMI instead of in Toronto,
that's for sure.
And the labor on parts made outside the U.S. do not contribute to Social
Security (a crisis) or income tax. That goes for outsouce jobs as well. I
saw a report a couple days ago that the average cost for union labor for GM
is about $75 an hour, including medical coverage and pensions.
Also read that GM cost is $1500 per car for health care.
It your money spend it where you wish, but you keep going around
in circles If you coal is to help the US economy it would be
better for the US economy if you bought one made in 'Detroit' ;)
Joseph Oberlander wrote:
Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.