V8 Porsche Update

I was tracking the 500hp V8 911 for sale on E-bay. I have watched this car for a while. Turns out, they finally sold it. Now, here are the things I learned from studying this car.

1) There is no such thing as a "Low Cost" conversion. Sure, outside a car a Small Block Chevy will make MUCH more HP than a Porsche 6 for Much less money. But the cost of making it work within the confines of a Porsche 911 chassis pretty much negate that cost savings.

2) If you build one, plan on keeping it. These guys lost over 30k on this car. They sold it for about what they paid for the engine/trans setup. They pretty much had to give away the car, conversion work, and a LOT of exotic equipment. I don't mind breaking even on a project, but 30k is a tough pill.

Just thought I would share since this often seems to be such a topic of discussion. I have still NEVER found a person who has lived with one of these conversions as a regular driver for a while and can tell me the good/bad points. I always just get a lot of theoretical non-sense based on emotional ideas. Oh, and I get a lot of people who have already spent XXX dollars with XXX conversion company who are RABID about the fact that their conversion is the best thing in the world even though it isn't completed, and is still in pieces.

Earl

Reply to
Big Earl
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912s are lightweight and can be picked up cheap. Reputable companies can rebuild that engine up to 200Hp, or damn close, in a car that's only slightly over 2,000 lbs. This is a much more cost effective method, in the long haul, than a V8 conversion. 2.0 914/4s can also be pretty fast, and can be built *well* under $30k. Plus, it's mid-engined. Not to mention that all that V8 weight will destroy a 911s natural balance.
Reply to
Steve Grauman

Just because you CAN doesn't mean it makes SENSE.

Take any 911 with a decent body & engine still running, put $30K into restoration & you will have a daily driver for the rest of your life. If you want a Chevy V8, buy a Chevy.

Jack Musgrove

1973 911T 2.4 Targa 2000 Carrera4 3.4 Cabrio
Reply to
Jack Musgrove

Subjective. I don't care for the way the body panels don't quite line up and how the paint on the bumpers doesn't quite match on some of the C5 colors.

speed,

Top speed on the standard Carrera is higher than either the standard C5 or the Z06.

handling,

The standard C5 and the standard Carrera generate similar numbers on the skidpad and slalom.

durability, reliability

The Carrera came in first on the latest JD Power Long Term reliability survey. The Boxster was third. The Corvette was no where to be found.

lighter,

The standard Carrera is approximately 3000 pounds. The Z06 is about

3120, the standard C5 about 3250.

faster,

Top speed of the Carrera, 177; C5 175, Z06 171

stronger, more efficient

The standard Corvette takes a 5.7 liter V8 to come up with performance similar to the 3.6 liter Carrera.

Heartbeat!!!

Heartburn.

Reply to
Jim Keenan

That's the kind of thing I was talking about. Ask about Pheasants, and you get a discussion of Geese vs Condors.

Many race teams have used one maker's motor and a different maker's chassis. That is more common than not. The discussion of "Who's Better" isn't what I am asking.

If you want pure dollar per performance buy a motorcycle. If you want a replacement for your manhood regardless of the cost, buy a Lamborghini. Porsche is a nice status car but it will only make up for a few inches. It is barely an exotic. At the end of the day, it is a dolled up VW bug. That's how Ferry designed it.

Why is it so hard to find anyone other than this one owner (West Coast Vintage for the record) who has a working conversion? Any for the price they paid they could have built a twin turbo 3.6 with a G50 and had money left over.

Earl

Jim Keenan wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@cox.net:

Reply to
Big Earl

Perhaps it has something to do with trying to fit a relatively tall, liquid cooled powerplant into an engine bay designed for a horizontally-opposed air cooled engine. The fastback body of the 911 series doesn't leave a lot of vertical clearance room without dramatically altering the car silhouette, and then aerodynamics can become a concern. If you don't care what the rear of the car looks like, then things are probably simplified somewhat. But I would suggest to you that most folks contemplating such a swap would try to retain as close to the original lines as possible so the car is a true "sleeper".

To retain something close to the car's original body would probably require moving the V8 far forward, and then attachment points could be become a problem. What about provisions for cooling? Do you make it a rear engine or mid engine configuration? Just on the surface there appear to be enough problems with adapting a V8 into a 911 that cost and magnitude of the job would dissuade all but a hearty few. Maybe it's so hard to find anyone other than this one owner because there aren't many other than this one owner..........

Reply to
Jim Keenan

The 911 is well known for it's lack of balance. It takes a trained driver to drive a 911 fast. With a heavier engine he will be probably scared as hell if he tries to make a turn.

For some reason people think that a Porsche is made for 1/4 mile times. But only if there are a lot of turns in the track :)

Reply to
Paul Sure

Perhaps it is just rhetoric, but the conversion guys claim that a SBC with aluminum heads (about 480 pounds) is lighter than a fully accesorized 930 turbo set up (about 520 pounds), I know the SBC weight is right, but I am not sure on the 930. So if the 930 size rear suspension is used, you are back with the correct weight balance.

Earl

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Steve Grauman) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@mb-m04.aol.com:

Reply to
Big Earl

Reply to
tecwhiz

Reply to
tecwhiz

I have a 2002 Golf GTi. The Rabbit moniker was dropped in the early 1980s.

My statement should make sense regardless of what kind of car I drive.

I'm not the first "asshole" to claim anything. The 911s weight balance is quite good, so is an F360 Modenas, and an M3s. But they all have a weight bias somewhere. Good balance does not infer perfect balance. Maybe you should break out the dictionary.

Reply to
Steve Grauman

Oh, look who crawled out of his trailer! Our resident hillbilly. I can see a readin' and a writin' were not practiced during your absence.

Jeez (or we would have accepted Geez)

< vw >

VW

Rabbit

statement

You

Profanity, the mark of the truly ignorant.

Welcome back redneck, we haven't had anybody to make fun of in a long time around here! How's the plastic coffin? How's Ma/Sis? How's your tooth?

Reply to
Devils944S2

"Maintained" "Was" "Was" "Have been"

Note all the references to the past.

I agree though. The Corvette was never a race car. It was never intended to be a race car. But then, neither was any standard Porsche you'd see on the dealers showroom. The Corvette was made for cruising in style, and defines the ultimate cruising car. You have to remember that "cruising" is an ALL American phenomena.

All over America in the 50's, 60's and 70's guys and gals were downtown for hours, cruising up Broadway and then down 5th. Stopping buy "Tic-Toc" or Carnival." No car ever built cruised better than the Corvette. Girls literally jumped for the opportunity to climb all over a guy in a Corvette.

Porsche drivers didn't even make a show in this arena. And what really pissed them off (and still does) was that the Corvette was always faster in a straight line, while carrying that girl. And, in the USA, that's what counted the most. What has happened now is the Corvette is not only faster in the 1/4, but also on any road course. All the while being MUCH more reliable, VASTLY easier to maintain, and with FAR better creature comfort.

One thing for sure! You will NEVER see a Corvette with a Porsche engine. I guess the closest you'll ever get to that is when Porsche put some engines in production Mooney aircraft. What a JOKE that was. The airplane was much more expensive, heavier, slower, and had severe reliability problems. Just like their cars, most of these aircraft have been, for the better, converted to American muscle "Lycoming."

So start living in the real world yourself.

Reply to
karl gruber

In hot rods, in luxury cars, and now, in certain SUVs. The Corvette is not a cruiser, it's a sports car.

Porsche engined Mooney aircraft are among the fastest prop-driven planes on earth. What are you smoking?

Reply to
Steve Grauman
*****Porsche engined Mooney aircraft are among the fastest prop-driven planes on earth. What are you smoking?*****

No. The Porsche powered Mooney was the slowest Mooney built after the 201 was introduced in 1977.

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""""AOPA owned one of the few PFMs built, and I had the fun of flying it for a couple of years. I loved it. Although it had 17 more horsepower than the

201, it was no faster and, in truth, a few knots slower than its far-less-expensive stablemate. But I appreciated the intelligence of the power management system and the ease of flying it. It took the dumb out of the pilot when the pilot was so inclined, and left him to concentrate on the far more important task of flying the airplane."""""

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"""""It worked; push the throttle forward to go fast, pull it back to slow down. No prop, no mixture and no worries about shock cooling. Even though it was a bit slower than the 201, owners loved the airplane. Unfortunately, there weren't many of them. Only 41 PFMs were sold, a poor sales history due in part to the $60,000 price premium over the 201 and a flat GA market."""""

Reply to
karl gruber

Reply to
tecwhiz

Wow, look at that hick response time...

Post put on Usenet in November + brain dead hick = brain dead hick response almost two months later.

Don't worry I have more...Has anyone seen the new Vette? First German envy with the Bilstein suspension, then 928 envy with the "all new" (in a 70's kind of way) V-8 mounted to a torque tube mounted to a rear transaxle design and now...Viper envy! Nice lights and nose GM, now that you have lost your coveted "bang for the buck" title to Mitsubishi, Subaru and Ford, you have capitulated and copied the king of the American muscle cars, the Dodge Viper with that bald faced rip-off of their front end.

...and of course, the corrections for our G.E.D. challenged hillbilly.

dumbshit

Devils

Jeeps

Audi

Keep it coming, I love smacking you around.

Reply to
Devils944S2

Speaking of which, this thread is months old. Where have you been?

Reply to
Steve Grauman

It was pretty amusing going to the Los Angeles car show this year. We got to sit in another Cayenne and another Boxster S at the Porsche exhibit this year, pretty awesome. My friend brought his girlfriend to the show, and she'd never been, fell in love with the Porsches and MB's SL55 AMG. When we got to the Chevy booth, I started bellyaching about the Corvettes and she didn't understand why. When I had her sit in the new "special edition" C5, the only response we could get from her was "ewww, this is nothing like the German cars". The interior of the new C6 looks far nicer, but it was hard to get near, and I *know* it's not up to German levels of quality. Powerful, sure, but I found the new Lotus Elise far more attractive for far less money.

Reply to
Steve Grauman

Well, almost. It's on jacks in my garage for year #3. Not that it's that big of a job, I just decided to basically change EVERYTHING. And yes, I would have to agree, it ain't worth it unless you plan on keeping it. Nobody wants them because you destroy the "Porsche" value by cutting it up and changing the one thing people like "Porsche Engines". I, personally, got tired of replacing $1000 oil coolers after I blew up my third one and dumped 12 quarts of oil in the driveway. That was the last straw. Mines not a cream puff but since I tacked on 930 steel turbo quarters and slant nose body parts I simply couldn't stomach putting another 160 Hp Porsche

2.7 back in it..what a joke. And more like $7K for a good 930 drop-in or 3.6L was not reasonable to me. Yeah, I've got that much in parts and what not but when (if) it's ever finished I can buy my parts at Walmart and still make everybody drool. I don't have to pay crazy prices for a mutated VW motor's replacement parts. Bottom line...it's a redneck idea but it does prove one point clearly...Porsche-There is ONE substitute...Chevy.
Reply to
chiromed

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