V8 Porsche Update

I was tracking the 500hp V8 911 for sale on E-bay. I have watched this car for a while. Turns out, they finally sold it. Now, here are the things I
learned from studying this car.
1) There is no such thing as a "Low Cost" conversion. Sure, outside a car a Small Block Chevy will make MUCH more HP than a Porsche 6 for Much less money. But the cost of making it work within the confines of a Porsche 911 chassis pretty much negate that cost savings.
2) If you build one, plan on keeping it. These guys lost over 30k on this car. They sold it for about what they paid for the engine/trans setup. They pretty much had to give away the car, conversion work, and a LOT of exotic equipment. I don't mind breaking even on a project, but 30k is a tough pill.
Just thought I would share since this often seems to be such a topic of discussion. I have still NEVER found a person who has lived with one of these conversions as a regular driver for a while and can tell me the good/bad points. I always just get a lot of theoretical non-sense based on emotional ideas. Oh, and I get a lot of people who have already spent XXX dollars with XXX conversion company who are RABID about the fact that their conversion is the best thing in the world even though it isn't completed, and is still in pieces.
Earl
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<< There is no such thing as a "Low Cost" conversion. Sure, outside a car a Small Block Chevy will make MUCH more HP than a Porsche 6 for Much less money. But the cost of making it work within the confines of a Porsche 911 chassis pretty much negate that cost savings. >>
912s are lightweight and can be picked up cheap. Reputable companies can rebuild that engine up to 200Hp, or damn close, in a car that's only slightly over 2,000 lbs. This is a much more cost effective method, in the long haul, than a V8 conversion. 2.0 914/4s can also be pretty fast, and can be built *well* under $30k. Plus, it's mid-engined. Not to mention that all that V8 weight will destroy a 911s natural balance.
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The 911 is well known for it's lack of balance. It takes a trained driver to drive a 911 fast. With a heavier engine he will be probably scared as hell if he tries to make a turn.
For some reason people think that a Porsche is made for 1/4 mile times. But only if there are a lot of turns in the track :)
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<< The 911 is well known for it's lack of balance. >>
The 911s balance is very good actually. That doesn't mean that there isn't a bias at one end though. An M3 has great balance, but it has a front weight bias, and a tendancy to understeer at the limit, as do most BMWs.
<< It takes a trained driver to drive a 911 fast. >>
It takes a trained driver to extract the most from any car. This can be said of many "sports" cars of varying levels including the Viper, F360 Modena, Integra Type R, Lotus Esprite, Camaro, and Carrera. It's just that the Carrera's learning curve can be particularly steep because of the unusual rearward weight bias.
<< With a heavier engine he will be probably scared as hell if he tries to make a turn. >>
Putting a V8 into a Carrera sounds like an easy way to end up tail-first through hard turns that a stock Carrera would probably flow through.
<< For some reason people think that a Porsche is made for 1/4 mile times. >>
Road racing is still a fairly new concept for many Americans, this is indicated by the still heavy popularity of Nascar, and still fledgling popularity of IRL, Cart, and especially, F1.
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Perhaps it is just rhetoric, but the conversion guys claim that a SBC with aluminum heads (about 480 pounds) is lighter than a fully accesorized 930 turbo set up (about 520 pounds), I know the SBC weight is right, but I am not sure on the 930. So if the 930 size rear suspension is used, you are back with the correct weight balance.
Earl
snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Steve Grauman) wrote in

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jeeze, coming from a vw rabbit driver, your statemenr makes sense. you are the first asshole to claim a 911 has "very good balance".

a
said of

Integra
weight
indicated
IRL,
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<< jeeze, coming from a vw rabbit driver, >>
I have a 2002 Golf GTi. The Rabbit moniker was dropped in the early 1980s.
<< your statemenr makes sense. >>
My statement should make sense regardless of what kind of car I drive.
<< you are the first asshole to claim a 911 has "very good balance". >>
I'm not the first "asshole" to claim anything. The 911s weight balance is quite good, so is an F360 Modenas, and an M3s. But they all have a weight bias somewhere. Good balance does not infer perfect balance. Maybe you should break out the dictionary.
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Oh, look who crawled out of his trailer! Our resident hillbilly. I can see a readin' and a writin' were not practiced during your absence.
<jeeze,> Jeez (or we would have accepted Geez)
< vw > VW
<rabbit> Rabbit
<statemenr> statement
<you> You
<asshole> Profanity, the mark of the truly ignorant.
Welcome back redneck, we haven't had anybody to make fun of in a long time around here! How's the plastic coffin? How's Ma/Sis? How's your tooth?

isn't
weight
times.
of
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Hows our favorite dumb shit , devils924, the expert on all cars? Toyota station wagons, $40K jeeps /w gold pkg, and a 4 cyl audis? LOL

be
Carrera's
rearward
tail-first
popularity
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Wow, look at that hick response time...
Post put on Usenet in November + brain dead hick = brain dead hick response almost two months later.
Don't worry I have more...Has anyone seen the new Vette? First German envy with the Bilstein suspension, then 928 envy with the "all new" (in a 70's kind of way) V-8 mounted to a torque tube mounted to a rear transaxle design and now...Viper envy! Nice lights and nose GM, now that you have lost your coveted "bang for the buck" title to Mitsubishi, Subaru and Ford, you have capitulated and copied the king of the American muscle cars, the Dodge Viper with that bald faced rip-off of their front end.
...and of course, the corrections for our G.E.D. challenged hillbilly.
<dumb shit> dumbshit
<devils> Devils
<jeeps> Jeeps
<audi> Audi
Keep it coming, I love smacking you around.

Modena,
is
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It was pretty amusing going to the Los Angeles car show this year. We got to sit in another Cayenne and another Boxster S at the Porsche exhibit this year, pretty awesome. My friend brought his girlfriend to the show, and she'd never been, fell in love with the Porsches and MB's SL55 AMG. When we got to the Chevy booth, I started bellyaching about the Corvettes and she didn't understand why. When I had her sit in the new "special edition" C5, the only response we could get from her was "ewww, this is nothing like the German cars". The interior of the new C6 looks far nicer, but it was hard to get near, and I *know* it's not up to German levels of quality. Powerful, sure, but I found the new Lotus Elise far more attractive for far less money.
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Well, almost. It's on jacks in my garage for year #3. Not that it's that big of a job, I just decided to basically change EVERYTHING. And yes, I would have to agree, it ain't worth it unless you plan on keeping it. Nobody wants them because you destroy the "Porsche" value by cutting it up and changing the one thing people like "Porsche Engines". I, personally, got tired of replacing $1000 oil coolers after I blew up my third one and dumped 12 quarts of oil in the driveway. That was the last straw. Mines not a cream puff but since I tacked on 930 steel turbo quarters and slant nose body parts I simply couldn't stomach putting another 160 Hp Porsche 2.7 back in it..what a joke. And more like $7K for a good 930 drop-in or 3.6L was not reasonable to me. Yeah, I've got that much in parts and what not but when (if) it's ever finished I can buy my parts at Walmart and still make everybody drool. I don't have to pay crazy prices for a mutated VW motor's replacement parts. Bottom line...it's a redneck idea but it does prove one point clearly...Porsche-There is ONE substitute...Chevy.
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<It's on jacks in my garage for year #3>
Yeah, that is makin' me drool!
Yikes!

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Just because you CAN doesn't mean it makes SENSE.
Take any 911 with a decent body & engine still running, put $30K into restoration & you will have a daily driver for the rest of your life. If you want a Chevy V8, buy a Chevy.
Jack Musgrove 1973 911T 2.4 Targa 2000 Carrera4 3.4 Cabrio

car
911
on
their
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karl gruber wrote:

Subjective. I don't care for the way the body panels don't quite line up and how the paint on the bumpers doesn't quite match on some of the C5 colors.
speed,
Top speed on the standard Carrera is higher than either the standard C5 or the Z06.
handling,
The standard C5 and the standard Carrera generate similar numbers on the skidpad and slalom.
durability, reliability
The Carrera came in first on the latest JD Power Long Term reliability survey. The Boxster was third. The Corvette was no where to be found.
lighter,
The standard Carrera is approximately 3000 pounds. The Z06 is about 3120, the standard C5 about 3250.
faster,
Top speed of the Carrera, 177; C5 175, Z06 171
stronger, more efficient
The standard Corvette takes a 5.7 liter V8 to come up with performance similar to the 3.6 liter Carrera.
Heartbeat!!!
Heartburn.

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That's the kind of thing I was talking about. Ask about Pheasants, and you get a discussion of Geese vs Condors.
Many race teams have used one maker's motor and a different maker's chassis. That is more common than not. The discussion of "Who's Better" isn't what I am asking.
If you want pure dollar per performance buy a motorcycle. If you want a replacement for your manhood regardless of the cost, buy a Lamborghini. Porsche is a nice status car but it will only make up for a few inches. It is barely an exotic. At the end of the day, it is a dolled up VW bug. That's how Ferry designed it.
Why is it so hard to find anyone other than this one owner (West Coast Vintage for the record) who has a working conversion? Any for the price they paid they could have built a twin turbo 3.6 with a G50 and had money left over.
Earl

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Big Earl wrote:

Perhaps it has something to do with trying to fit a relatively tall, liquid cooled powerplant into an engine bay designed for a horizontally-opposed air cooled engine. The fastback body of the 911 series doesn't leave a lot of vertical clearance room without dramatically altering the car silhouette, and then aerodynamics can become a concern. If you don't care what the rear of the car looks like, then things are probably simplified somewhat. But I would suggest to you that most folks contemplating such a swap would try to retain as close to the original lines as possible so the car is a true "sleeper".
To retain something close to the car's original body would probably require moving the V8 far forward, and then attachment points could be become a problem. What about provisions for cooling? Do you make it a rear engine or mid engine configuration? Just on the surface there appear to be enough problems with adapting a V8 into a 911 that cost and magnitude of the job would dissuade all but a hearty few. Maybe it's so hard to find anyone other than this one owner because there aren't many other than this one owner..........
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an easy running 5.7. not a stressed to the max 3.6. now compare efficiency in terms of mpg, service costs, HP and torque of the 5.7 vs 3.6. and what about the weight of the engines?

and
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"Maintained" "Was" "Was" "Have been"
Note all the references to the past.
I agree though. The Corvette was never a race car. It was never intended to be a race car. But then, neither was any standard Porsche you'd see on the dealers showroom. The Corvette was made for cruising in style, and defines the ultimate cruising car. You have to remember that "cruising" is an ALL American phenomena.
All over America in the 50's, 60's and 70's guys and gals were downtown for hours, cruising up Broadway and then down 5th. Stopping buy "Tic-Toc" or Carnival." No car ever built cruised better than the Corvette. Girls literally jumped for the opportunity to climb all over a guy in a Corvette.
Porsche drivers didn't even make a show in this arena. And what really pissed them off (and still does) was that the Corvette was always faster in a straight line, while carrying that girl. And, in the USA, that's what counted the most. What has happened now is the Corvette is not only faster in the 1/4, but also on any road course. All the while being MUCH more reliable, VASTLY easier to maintain, and with FAR better creature comfort.
One thing for sure! You will NEVER see a Corvette with a Porsche engine. I guess the closest you'll ever get to that is when Porsche put some engines in production Mooney aircraft. What a JOKE that was. The airplane was much more expensive, heavier, slower, and had severe reliability problems. Just like their cars, most of these aircraft have been, for the better, converted to American muscle "Lycoming."
So start living in the real world yourself.
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<< The Corvette was never a race car. It was never intended to be a race car. But then, neither was any standard Porsche you'd see on the dealers showroom. >>
I disagree, what about the Dauer-962, 959, GT1, GT2, and GT3 road cars? Are those not race cars? The Turbo and Carrera get pretty close sometimes as well.
<< The Corvette was made for cruising in style, and defines the ultimate cruising car >>
LOL!!! The Corvette defines the ultimate penis-extender for people who can't afford a Porsche and refuse to drive anything else.
<< You have to remember that "cruising" is an ALL American phenomena. >>
In hot rods, in luxury cars, and now, in certain SUVs. The Corvette is not a cruiser, it's a sports car.
<< when Porsche put some engines in production Mooney aircraft. What a JOKE that was. The airplane was much more expensive, heavier, slower, and had severe reliability problems. >>
Porsche engined Mooney aircraft are among the fastest prop-driven planes on earth. What are you smoking?
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