So you're saying hybrids *do* make economic sense?
-- Regards, Noddy.
BMW's going hybrid.
Aug 31, 2009
50 Replies
Only if you understand economics. For example, if everyone burned half as much gas, gas would cost much less than it does today. The cost of dealing with respiratory disorders would drop. The cost of dealing with climate change would drop. I could go on but you aren't going to think anyway so what's the point?
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>>>>>>> Well, if you're bying a BMW, you're probably not that worried about >>>>>>>> the fact that the extra cost of the hybrid is never paid off by >>>>>>>> fuel savings. If you're willing to pay $10,000 or $20,000 to feel >>>>>>>> green, then go for it.>>>>>>> **Really? How much will petrol cost next month? How about next year? >>>>>>> How about in 5 years? 10? The problem with making silly predictions, >>>>>>> is that you don't know all the factors. I can promise you thing: >>>>>>> Petrol prices are in an upward trend. There is no evidence to >>>>>>> suggest that the trend will reverse anytime soon.>>>>>> Petrol prices would tend to be capped by the price of biodiesel, >>>>>> because although petrol vehicles cannot run on biodiesel, as soon as >>>>>> it becomes clear that the latter fuel will become cheaper than >>>>>> petrol, people will be buying new vehicles that run on it in >>>>>> preference to petrol.>>>>>>
According to what I have read and seen about algae being used for bio fuel They claim that algae produces more than ten times bio fuel than other crop sources.
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>>>>>>>> Well, if you're bying a BMW, you're probably not that worried >>>>>>>>> about the fact that the extra cost of the hybrid is never paid off >>>>>>>>> by fuel savings. If you're willing to pay $10,000 or $20,000 to >>>>>>>>> feel green, then go for it.>>>>>>>> **Really? How much will petrol cost next month? How about next >>>>>>>> year? How about in 5 years? 10? The problem with making silly >>>>>>>> predictions, is that you don't know all the factors. I can promise >>>>>>>> you thing: Petrol prices are in an upward trend. There is no >>>>>>>> evidence to suggest that the trend will reverse anytime soon.>>>>>>> Petrol prices would tend to be capped by the price of biodiesel, >>>>>>> because although petrol vehicles cannot run on biodiesel, as soon as >>>>>>> it becomes clear that the latter fuel will become cheaper than >>>>>>> petrol, people will be buying new vehicles that run on it in >>>>>>> preference to petrol.>>>>>>>
The operative word there is "claim." How much algae has been converted to biofuel to date? If there was anything to that claim, the lake I live on would be harvested for biofuel instead of the soybean field down the road.
You mean "only if I try to justify them in ridiculous ways that are totally unrealistic".
Nice try d*****ad, but "what if's" don't cut it in the real "here and now" world.
-- Regards, Noddy.
What were you saying a few moments ago about understanding economics?
-- Regards, Noddy.
The part you apparently didn't understand? I see you snipped it. Coward.
I snipped it because it was nothing other than a load of hypothetical bullshit you idiot.
-- Regards, Noddy.
No, you snipped it because you are an intellectual coward. I'm amused by the way you run from that which you cannot debate, leaving a few ignorant curses in your wake.
**Not quite. In real Dollar terms, some things are cheaper. **Here is the long term cost of oil:
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You'll note a couple of things:
- Your choice of 1980 was a smart one, since that corresponded to a spike in oil prices.
- You should note that the cost of oil in 1980 was very close to the present figure (in real Dollars).
- The overall tredn, since the early 1970s has been up (in reall Dollars).
**Indeed.
**A couple of problems with that:
- China's economy is one of the few that is actually growing.
- China's population is huge and getting wealthier.
The effect of their demand on world prices
**Correct. Back in the 1950s and early 1960s, most of the Japanese population was poor. They're not now and have not been for some time. Expect the Chinese population to respond similarly. The catch with China is that the government refuses to float the currency. Eventually, it will have no choice but to do so. That will do several things:- Raise the price of Chinese manufactured products substantially and rapidly.
- Make all Chinese substantially and rapidly much weathier.
**I'm betting it will for the above reasons and the peak oil thing. **Quite a bit, actually. City driving requires lots of torque. Electric motors work best in that area. **Just like a car. In stop-start motoring hybrids make lots of sense. Less so, with long distance driving. **Don't put money on it. Hybrids have only been used for a decade or so. There's plenty of tinkering to be done. **Of course. The catch being that they have the potential to use far less fuel than regular petrol cars in city driving. **Sure.
Rot,if everyone burned half as much fuel (gas) the cost to the end user would cost the same as the tax component would go up. the rest of your statement may or may not have some truth which may be seen in the fullness of time.
All you have repeatedly ranted about hybrids and the Prius in particular are basically ..1. You find them ugly.. well who gives a f**k what you think? I love their look and so do many others so try to respect that fact.
- Economic sense..Ive never seen any other car bagged so hard by a f****it trying to derate the hybrid system.
No other car has to justify itself this badly so lump it. It doesnt cost an arm or leg in comparison to high end motoring. Using your logic why would anyone bother to buy a sports car? It isnt JUST about economy.
- Fuel consumption..It does do the claimed MPG and more!! The Prius is the perfect city car.Traffic jams are where I laugh hardest in fact. My car switches off its ICE how bout yours? If you were to do a real time fuel usage analysis in city traffic the MPG for a Prius would be untouchable.
What's to debate?
You're talking about hybrids making economic sense *if* a load of hypothetical conditions existed. You're slamming your ham about s*it that
*might* happen at some future point and carrying on as if it's important *now*.No wonder you drive a Prius. You're as dumb as dogshit flavoured ice-cream.
-- Regards, Noddy.
Some things certainly are, but by and large everything in general has risen. It always does.
It is indeed.
*Some* of China's population are doing well, but the overwhelming majority are eating cardboard and are unlikely to afford a litre of petrol let alone own a motorised vehicle for quite some time. India is much the same in that the demand for fuel isn't proportional to the population like it is in Western countries.Not in our lifetimes.
The very reason for China's current "wealth" is it's willingness to allow it's people to earn 40 cents an hour slaving away in concentration camp like conditions so Westerners like you and I can buy a ten buck electric sander at Bunnings. Take that away and the country has nothing to offer to foreign manufacturers who are looking for cheap labour, which will ultimately mean our dollars won't be heading back to China.
Which is precisely why they're not interested in doing it.
The don't *have* to do so. The fat cats are getting by just fine with the system as it is.
I'm betting it's not something that'll need to be worried about by anyone alive today.
So do petrol engines.
Nothing like in a car.
Hybrids don't *need* to exist, as there are other, currently cheaper alternatives. This isn't the case with diesel/electric locomotives.
The idea is a great one. However the practical limitations are poor, and until they're overcome they'll only ever be a novelty. An expensive, uneconimical novelty which kinda defeats their very purpose.
Potential and reality are often very different.
As I've mentioned before, there are two Priii in my wife's department that are used for city driving on a daily basis. Their average monthly fuel bill is only slightly less than that of the Petrol powered Mitsubishi's they replaced.
-- Regards, Noddy.
I'll bet you do.
Oddly enough, you don't seem to place much stock in the fact that the guy who drives the Prius every day just happens to be a complete f****it.
Maybe you can't tell the difference and it's just a "Prius owner" thing.....
Lol :)
That's pretty funny coming from someone who argues economics based on "what if's" :)
-- Regards, Noddy.
However, if everyone burned half as much gas then what we have left would last twice as long. One of my major concerns is that there will be SFA left for our kids (probably) and even less for theirs. And I don't believe that a viable alternative solution will be available until the discomfort felt by future generations is acute. Others might be able to live with the concept of "I won't live forever so f*ck the future" but I can't.
In the U.S. when the price topped $4.00/gallon gas consumption dropped dramatically, driving the price back down. Taxes were not raised to compensate for the lower price.
Tax wont change with minor fluctuations but if the govt gets half the tax return for a period and stays there what do you think they are going to do.
Depends on where you live. In the U.S. taxes on our gasoline don't fund our health care.
Now there's an oxymoron. "The U.S." and "health care".
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