Prius vs. Hummer

It's an official NASA site.

Reply to
Michelle Steiner
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DING, DING, DING..... a natural cycle.

Reply to
Jim Smith

:-)

Same as pretty much everybody - I just got in the research habit when I was young and it hasn't lost its fascination. I still like looking through the stacks at the library for the same reason - all sorts of interesting stuff about things I would have never thought about. The 600s are still my favorites, but the 900s have some amazing stuff about the crazy world we live in.

Mike

Reply to
Michael Pardee

Oh - you mean like Holocaust deniers. The difference, as I see it, is that the Holocaust was an event rather than a theory. As one man put it, "Of all those who were tried for their part in the Holocaust, none used the defense that it never happened." The problem is that global warming, the big bang and evolution are theories. Arguments on both sides (and any other views pertinent to that) are equally valid and no conclusion can be drawn... probably ever. That would defeat the point of science. Personally, I have considerable reservation about the Big Bang - time dilation in those overwhelming densities would certainly change things from the way it is often presented and might even completely change the nature of just what happened. It doesn't help that we still don't have the math to allow the universe as we know it to even exist. Hey - we're down to needing 10 dimensions instead of 22, as long as we allow non-real number systems! I also have trouble at the fringes of evolution; as others point out, evolution begins when cells exist. Viruses evolve, but they require host cells - that chicken and egg thing.

Way down in Table 1, on page 53. The first two entries are for depleted flights, while the third is for a flight of low depletion (second and third columns). You can see the effect of NOx is the driving force in the depletion, with HOx being more important as a background factor.

Yes - we would never have noticed the difference. Note also this is a measurement of total reactive halogen, including volcanic sources. Contrary to popularly spread reports, vulcanism does inject material directly into the stratosphere. Ordinary activity rarely makes it through the tropopause, but explosive vertical eruptions sure do. When Pinatubo erupted (second picture

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it injected so much particulate sulfates into the stratosphere it dominated ozone depletion worldwide for 20 months (link broken).

The CFC theory depended on the seriously contaminated measurements that launched the panic. (See 'The Ozone Crisis' by Sharon Roan, foreword by Al Gore. When she describes the original measurements she mentions the grad student had to tell everybody in the family to stop using aerosols because they were interfering with his readings... he was reading ambient air.) Another red flag was that (as Roan reported) all the professors were amazed at first but won over by the data. I was amazed, too; that would have to mean the law of gravity was inoperative! How CFCs, which are 2.5 to 5.5 times the density of air, would cross the 8 miles of non-convective tropopause beggars the imagination.

Mike

Reply to
Michael Pardee

Thanks Mike,

I posted my last car ad for my '04 Prius in our local newspaper classifieds. It was $34 for unlimited space/words, and ran for

10 days. The circulation was >200K, but I got few calls on it. Ended up selling it on eBay, but that cost me $85!

I'm currently trying a selling service based in Las Vegas. They run your ad on multiple web sites and in several publications. The ads run until car is sold. $289

In case anybody might be interested, mine's an '01 Prius w/133K miles. $10.9K OBO. Located in Mishawaka, near S. Bend, IN. (home of the Hummer!) View it at:

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Thanks again! - Greg

P.S. That company I'm with that's list>> Isn't this thread a little "apples and oranges"?

Reply to
Greg

The Blue Book value is?

Bob Wilson

Reply to
Bob Wilson

and the earth is only 6,000 years old.

Reply to
geneccc

Reply to
Greg

The presence of NOx (and reduction in rate of O3 production) can be triggered by H2O in the gas stream. I don't see that this report paid any attention to this.

Activated NOx compounds in the presence of visible light are an important contributor to the production of ozone... whether this is in the lower atmosphere or the tropopause. Water both deactivates the NOx into more stable forms, and water serves as a catalyst to the decay of ozone (via H2O2).

And what did your rant have to do with a Prius?

David A. Smith

Reply to
dlzc

The big bang is a theory. Global warming and evolution are observed facts; there are theories that try to explain how the facts happened. This is confusing to some people because the fact and the theory have the same name.

No, they are not equally valid, and there are more than two sides to the explanation of human life on Earth. Evolution is one side, the stories in Genesis comprise another, and each religion that addresses the subject is yet another. But all these religious explanations have one thing in common: they declare by fiat with absolutely no way to examine anything. The evolutionary explanation is based on observed facts, and gets modified as necessary as more facts are discovered.

Not noticed what difference? That 15% could be just enough to tip something over the edge.

Reply to
Michelle Steiner

Not if the center line keeps moving up.

Reply to
Michelle Steiner

You're quite right - this got OT way back when. Time to put it to bed, and my apologies for getting caught up.

Mike

Reply to
Michael Pardee

TinyURL.com is a way to reduce the length of URLs so they don't break in emails and posts. As you point out, the shortened (indexed, I assume) URLs also don't give any clue where they point unless the link is opened, which is always a risk unless the user trusts the source.

As David Smith points out, I have taken this awfully far afield. My apologies to the group.

Mike

Reply to
Michael Pardee

It took years before the common man could be convinced that the earth wasn't situated on the back of a gigantic turtle. Same thing with trying to convince these bible thumpers and Bush Lovers that global warming is happening. They'll come around, they just take longer than the rest of us.

Reply to
geneccc

(Woman from audience) "The world isn't balanced on the back of Atlas, it is on the back of a turtle." (Lecturer) "Well, madam, what does that turtle stand on?" "On the back of another turtle, of course." "Well, what does *that* turtle stand on?" "Oh, no, you can't trick me! It's turtles all the way down!" (From an 'Embedded Systems Programming' magazine)

Superstition is identically the rush to believe and the rush to disbelieve (since it is all in how the question is posed.) I only ask that you not rush to judgement without seeking your own answers, rather than to accept what you are spoon fed.

Back on topic... Michelle and I go back a few years. We have very different and strongly held opinions. She is one of two very intelligent "sparring partners" I have who keep me on my toes. I apologize again for exchanging on-list, as the subject truly was off topic. She and I are here because there is one subject on which we actually agree: that the Prius is a magnificent car. There are those who subscribe to the superstitions about it, who believe it is made with half a ton of lead that will find its way to landfills, that it doesn't get nearly as good mileage as its owners claim, that it needs to be plugged in and lacks power and is flimsy and cheaply built. Fortunately, they don't matter. The Prius is one of the biggest automotive success stories of our time and the naysayers don't have to buy hybrids. Their loss, I say.

Mike

Reply to
Michael Pardee

I've enjoyed sending those folks over to forums that are sympathetic to such nonsense. I figure that is the best punishment.

Bob Wilson

Reply to
Bob Wilson

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