Americans Don't Love Trucks Anymore

Hmmm. I still "love" them. I've got three. They may not be the best business decision for some folks, but I'd have a hard time hauling three dirt bikes around in a Prius.

Full size Chevy with a small V8 and I can get ~20 on the road if I'm being conscious of it.

Yes, I can't wait until it gets back down around $2.00 or so, but I'll just bag one or two long trips this year and stay a little closer to home. Works out for everyone.

I just convinced two of my staff members - owning a Yukon XL and F150 - not to trade in their 'gas guzzling' trucks for some POS subcompact eco-unfriendly battery mobile like the prius or the volt.

On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 22:04:43 -0700, PerfectReign rearranged some electrons to say:

Before you trade in your Hummer for a Prius, read this:

That is one of the most ridiculous articles I have ever read. The numbers only work if you assume your Hummer will last 300,000 miles and your Prius is junked after 100,000 miles.

Ed White

Even if you factor in the Hummmer lasting a ridiculous 100,000 miles (which it can do in a few years easily) then the comparison is still not that bad.

Keep in mind that Toyota cars and trucks don't age well. IMO, they are the worst of the imports when it comes to aging gracefully. They tend to look old really quickly and tend to fall apart faster than cars from - say - Nissan or Honda or Mercedes or that Bavarian Motor Works company.

Let's not forget the utility. How much offroad driving can you do in a Prius? How are they at rock crawling or hauling a couple thousand pounds of crap up into the Sierras?

Americans Don't Love Trucks Anymore

Not true....What your seeing now is the market starting to revert back to the way it should be...People driving/buying truck who NEED trucks...Not the yuppie type who lives in a townhouse or condo and wants a truck to go to Home Depot to pick up light bulbs... The pick up sales are taking a beating because the industry has catered to the demand of the needless people, and now need to cut back production to what it should be for people who need trucks...I say good!! If you don't need a truck, then please don't buy one. If all the people who don't need trucks don't have them, they will save money and be happy, the demand/usage will drop off and prices of gas may come down and we'll all be happy...

IYM

I have a 2004 F-150 4x4 that I will be keeping. It gets fairly decent highway mpg and isn't anywhere near as bad as large sedans of the 60's and early 70's.

I had been looking at a 2008 F-250 4x4 turbo diesel, but after seeing diesel going for $0.90 more than the regular that my current truck uses, I think that I will stick with my truck and buy travel trailers that are within its pulling range. At $4.129, it would be a pain in the wallet to fill-up the F-250 with diesel.

Count yourself lucky - Where I live, diesel is $4.499 - 87oct gas is $3.399

IYM

I agree...

I used my 300M to haul lumber back and forth to our house to build a 110 foot long 6ft cedar privacy fence...boards, posts, concrete mix, pickets, etc. Granted it took a few more trips than a truck could have done...but it can be done with a little effort.

Mike

On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 07:52:11 -0400, C. E. White rearranged some electrons to say:

Of course I don't believe that a Hummer will last 300,000 miles. You missed the point. One has to consider the *entire* process of making and using an automobile. The damage caused by the mining of heavy metals used to make the battery pack (which, incedentally, will most likely have to be replaced before the car hits 100,000 miles), has to be figured into the total cost of ownership, and the cost to the environment.

And why not? I haven't had an S-10 that didnt hit that mark, or damn close to it.

Whitelightning

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 01:52:45 +0000, Whitelightning rearranged some electrons to say:

I guess you missed the point as well.

Don't forget, that expensive battery will have to be replaced in time. Is that 100,000? The Prius sound like a good Idea, it seems like such a good thing until you really start to think about it. Toss out that battery and electric Motor and just have the Gas Engine and it would be cheaper to buy by far, less polluting, and Gas Mileage won't jump up all that much. I've driven quite a few Prius's from work and that Gas engine is almost always running anyway. If it really got 60 miles a gallon, it might be worth it. There are people though that are modifying them to run on ONLY batteries for in town driving. Charging the batteries up is quite a bit cheaper then gas these days. Of course your spending more money on more battery's, so again, the cost and Benefit, is it worth it then?

Personally I would do what some others are doing. Buying a small used cheap car. Yanking the Engine, and installing a used Electric Motor and battery's. They're quick, quite, and cheap to operate. Your Limited in Range before a recharge, but for around town driving where you get the worse mileage, it could be a bargin. From what I hear it works out to under $1 per gallon maybe it was half that compared to a gas version or something like that.

The mining of nickel impact is a specious argument. The Sudbury mine area has been a nuked out zone for literally tens of decades. The nickle output from Sudbury Operations was in excess 250,000 tons in 2006. 1000 tons annualy is 0.4% of the output. So much for that argument. I agree that the price of fuel and oil is due to a number of things, futures and speculators drives the crude price. The pump price is partly due to this, but a big influence is price fixing and monopoly tactics on the part of the oil companies. I live in the near the biggest oil area of North America, Alberta. Most of what we make here gets exported to the US. Combined federal and provincial fuel tax is 91 cents per US gallon. That's the lowest in Canada. All other provinces tax at $1.20 to $1.50 per US gallon. Right now we pay $4.25 to $4.30 per US gallon for regular. BUT....lo and behold, almost every gas pump in every province in this whole wide country sell the same regular for...you guessed it...$425 to $4.30 per gallon. The only exceptions are a few inner metro mega cities who impose a punitive fuel tax to discourage driving in the metro area. This is price fixing pure and simple. I was just in Arizona / Nevada and it was $3.28 to $3.35 per gallon. $1 cheaper per gallon. End of rant. I need my '04 Avalanche Z71...for winter driving, hunting, fishing, hauling and towing. I just use my '02 Impala LS more for everyday driving and commuting. Going out and buying a new hybrid or econobox to save $20 per fill on the Impala or $40 per fill on the Avalanche is bad economics. I own these vehicles. Paid in full. Saving $120 to $200 per month depending on the month yields a net savings of $2500 max. How much does a decent new econobox cost? Or a hybrid? Or a diesel? 5 years of savings nets me what......$12,500? $15,000 if gas is up another 25-30% over the next few years? Thanks, I'll stick to vehicles I can use and enjoy and save money at the same time.

As a small note, apparently the careful power management of the hybrids, keeping the battery between roughly 50% and 75% of full charge, makes a huge difference in battery life -- to the point that the batteries pretty much are lasting the life of those vehicles (i.e. much much longer than 100K miles). Don't know if those statistics are markedly different places like where I am (southern New Mexico).

That's a expensive battery also to replace! So again how much gas do you have to burn to make your money back on that replacement battery?Aren't these battery's like $4,000 to replace or something? If it actually got 60 miles to the gallon, maybe it would be worth it a little more, but it's far from that.

In Europe they pay a whole lot more, but it's mostly TAXES! It's just crazy. My truck will be paid off this month. I plan to keep it for many years to come. I don't want another Car payment, Some of that money can go to the higher gas prices, though I'm driving a little less these days. I'm averaging around 8,000 miles a year at most. I have a short commute, I moved to be closer to work, and go home for lunch. In the warmer weather I'll take my Premium Gas Guzzling jetski to the lake. When the weather is better I'll take my Motorcycle out for a trip. Go out on a 100 or so mile ride, a whole lot cheaper that way, and can be a lot of fun when your not dealing with all the cars that don't see you.

Uh, take a look at Consumer Reports -- Toyotas age very well.

Yeah, I've always felt CR is on the take from Toyota. They never do poorly. I am not an "import basher" but I cannot see why they feel Toyota does anything well.

Other than the FJ-40, which had great styling, I don't see much from Toyota that is worth the low-end sheet metal they spew out.

Note: If someone wants to donate a decent condition FJ-40 to me, I'd be happy to outfit it with a Cummins 4BT. :P