Toyota To Super-Size Gas Engine In Next Hybrid Model?

Not-So-Pious Prius: Toyota Looking To Super-Size Gas Engine In Next Hybrid Model?

According to a report from the Japanese newspaper Asahi Shibun, ToMoCo is looking to bring a new hybrid-only model for the 'merican market. According to the newsmag's sources, it's expected be a midsize sedan with a 2.5- to 3-liter engine, larger than the 1.5-liter the Prius currently uses to putz around. The plan, apparently, is to add this new model to the already-on-the-market hybrid lineup alongside its pipsqueak brother. So what's the deal? Why is Toyota looking to boost both size and fuel consumption? According to Asahi and Toyota, the Prius is the most popular hybrid model in the US because Americans want to be seen while being green. So, even if a new-gen Prius is less green than the one on the market, the name cachet is enough to make 'em sell like hotcakes. Hmm -- higher sales of gas-guzzling SUV's, a new Tundra ton-o-fun pickup, image coming first and now cutting fuel efficiency to expand market share -- ToMoCo's becoming more and more like the 'merican manufacturers it's replacing on the sales ladder every day. ? Ray Wert

Toyota to roll out new line of hybrids [Asahi.com via AutoblogGreen]

nweaver says:

Well, its a clear lesson. The Civic Hybrid, except for not being a hatchback, is better than the prius: Cheaper, same mileage, same power, simpler design, etc etc etc.

But the bling SELLS, and the Prius is Bling Bling Bling.

What I'd expect is it to be based on the Camry Hybrid, but significantly different in body shape (probably a low-drag hatch like the Prius, its a useful form factor and good for efficiency too) and interior, just as the EX lexus is based on the Camry.

Thus it would have all the benefits of being a "new" car, without being a new platform and able to be built on the existing Camry lines.

12/29/06 11:20 AM joelja says:

Well... So I'm sure the lexus gs450h is selling fine... The accord hybrid isn't doesn't so great though. Maybe there's a market for performance hybrids... I can't imagine that that market for middle to high trim cars that get decent mileage has been exhausted yet.

Most people who can afford to, would prefer not to drive around in something that looks like an economy beer can in search of better mileage... frankly today's "economy cars" don't offer decent mileage anyway (gm aveo, suzuki reno anyway)...

I ended up going with a civic hybrid on the premise that I couldn't stand to wait for a prius, and couldn't stand to have the next car not get ~40Mpg (by in large it does). Ok so engine displacement isn't going to excite the tuner crowd (1.3l), it's going to look silly with a coffee can sized exhaust, especially since it shuts off at stop lights. but overall it's a decent if not exciting car.

12/29/06 11:30 AM cars What's the problem here? Toyota will still sell the Prius (and they've already said that they want the next-gen Prius to be more economical than the current one), they just want to add an efficient vehicle that's more of a classic upper midsize vehicle. I'm not entirely sure that they need a dedicated model when they've already got the Camry Hybrid, but good for them for focusing on a larger green-machine and retaining the Prius, too. This way they'll have more than a one-size-fits-all dedicated hybrid. Maybe this even means that the next Prius will shrink slightly, back into the compact realm. I don't find it anywhere near as sinister as Wert suggests. "Why is Toyota looking to boost both size and fuel consumption?" They AREN'T. They're trying to decrease consumption for larger vehicles. How shamelessly corporate of them.

12/29/06 12:02 PM Ray Wert says:

carsinamerica -- Toyota is still a company that looks to profit-maximize. I'm not imbuing it with "sinister motives", I just don't choose to believe that they're doing this to "decrease consumption for larger vehicles." Mainly it's because I know that at the same time as they sell the Prius for next to no profits, the largest percentage of gains in their profits are coming on the backs of increased sales of SUV's and trucks, many of which aren't as fuel-efficient size-for-size as the competition. They're not trying to decrease consumption for larger vehicles -- rather, it's as the article suggests -- they're seeing a market for a vehicle and going after it.

They are boosting size because it's what people want and it's decreasing fuel consumption because that's what increasing size does. That's not sinister -- that's the nature of the beast. ToMoCo's a company and it wants to make money -- as companies are want to do.

12/29/06 12:16 PM t I thought the Prius was already considered a mid-size. Those things aint small...

12/29/06 01:12 PM grzydj says:

I think that's pretty disingenuous Ray. It sounds like Toyota is responding to consumers need for more POWER POWER POWER. Everything has to have more power, even little green machines.

The second generation Prius had more power than the first, it was larger and it get better fuel economy than the first gen. Like everything in the car industry, it has to become larger, and more powerful the next time around, regardless if it counters the idea of what a green car should be.

12/29/06 01:17 PM br549 says:

nweaver: Have you ridden in a Civic Hybrid? The drivetrain is messed up. It makes this weird groaning noise as it shuffles between charging and discharging and other modes. It's noticeably from the front seat and very obvious in the back.

At this time, the Civic can't match the Prius for refinement.

I don't get this new car. It's just a Camry Hybrid, isn't it? I know that hybrids are not selling well in the larger sizes. Has Toyota concluded this is because they don't have the correct name on the side? I would beg to differ.

joelja: There are three Lexus hybrids, and I don't know that any of them are selling particularly well. I'd say the biggest seller is the RX400h, for what it matters. I've never seen the other two at all. And in my area, Priuses seem to make up 10% of the cars on the road at times.

The more I read this stuff, the more I believe GM's "mild hybrid" strategy is a good one. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't remove the Prius from the market. But a large portion of the populace just will never be in the market for a car where they have to sacrifice a lot of style, size or money to get a hybrid. If mild hybrid systems can be installed for $650 (like on the Saturn VUE), maybe it can increase the installed base of hybrids and thus reduce oil usage further.

12/29/06 01:29 PM Ray Wert says:

grzydj -- it is true ToMoCo is responding to the desire for more "POWER POWER POWER." There's a huge segment of the population that wants a hybrid in a larger size -- and ToMoCo wants to appeal to that segment of the market. If they were merely upgrading the current Prius I would say you're correct -- but from what the article said, it's going to be an addition to the lineup. That means they are continuing to offer a lower-powered gas engine for the current model, and offering a higher-powered gas engine for another model -- they aren't replacing the old one.

My argument is Toyota's a company like any other -- they found a niche marketing tool, and they're using it. Now they want to make money on it (or at least more than they're currently making), and the way you do that is to expand into other, more-profitable segments -- like larger vehicles, which by definition are more fuel-inefficient.

If Toyota was the "Hi, I'm green, and that's my a priori goal!" manufacturer many paint it as -- it would only make the Prius, and that's it.

tonsoffun -- try sitting in the back seat of one. Those batteries take up a lot of room.

12/29/06 01:44 PM iamjames says:

I was reading this and thinking "isn't this what the new hybrid Camry is?" until i got to this line: "...Prius is the most popular hybrid model in the US because Americans want to be seen while being green."

and it struck me: ohhhhhh... people wanna be seen in a vehicle that's only hybrid. The hybrid camry looks identical to the regular camry and that's just not good enough. Hybrid owners need their own separate hybrid body and style, so from a mile away people can see them coming and shout "LOOK, IT'S A HYBRID!"

this makes sense in the same way it sucks driving a SRT 300C or charger when your neighbor bought the 6 banger version and saved $20,000. Sure you have the big V8, but your V8 doesn't look anymore impressive rolling down the street than your neighbor's does.

12/29/06 06:35 PM Bumblebee says:

It may help to remember that Toyota developed the original Prius - which turned a net loss with each sale - from their marketing budget: They developed the car not to make profit per unit but to cultivate buyers to the brand.

It's a long-term strategy, and rolling it out means capitalizing on this more attractive identity they've created by making Toyota Hybrids that may be somewhat less green but still carry this attractive image. Sure, less efficient hybrids dilute that image a little, but it's not like they'll pull a Jeep and build a CompAss.

It's a similar strategy to creating the Scion brand (50% of owners go onto buy Toyotas), but marketing to environmentalists instead of youth.

12/29/06 08:51 PM

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BobDavis
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So, what does Toyota say?

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Michael Pardee

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